I think its pretty clear that Aran'gar was holding saidin if she gasped. It's a recurrent reaction we've seen when a channeler is suddenly shielded and loses their connection with the Source.
I also don't think that strength is a primary determinant here. Graendal is immensely skilled. Aran'gar was facing the window and unprepared. We know that channelers can shield one another if they are of equal strength. IMO Graendal is stronger or equal to her and overwhelmed her with sheer speed and surprise. Whether she used the angreal is difficult say, but the author usually mentions if a channeler pulls through one.
We also don't know whether she shielded Delana and Aran'gar at the exact same time, or did it quickly and sequentially. She's certainly fast enough to pull off two shields that look like a single weaving.
Anyway, I don't find it a big stretch for a female Forsaken to shield a male. I think it's been a well established fact that the females are close to the males in strength, and Graendal is near to the top of all channeling strengths.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion
- 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM
9316 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!!
- 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM
2689 Views
A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM
2495 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM
2427 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM
1421 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM
1491 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!)
- 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM
2599 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM*
- 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM
1341 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM
1367 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM
1427 Views
Regarding Graendal
- 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM
2777 Views
a very weak angreal
- 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM
2309 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone.
- 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM
2270 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream
- 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM
2360 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM
2422 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply
- 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM
2295 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not
- 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM
2118 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not.
- 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM
2202 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time?
- 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM
2198 Views
I think so, yes.
- 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM
2148 Views
I don't think so actually
- 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM
2275 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling
- 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM
2175 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM
1193 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd
- 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM
2050 Views
So here's what happens...
- 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM
2600 Views
Thanks. A few comments...
- 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM
2075 Views
I don't rule out the angreal...
- 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM
2061 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so...
- 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM
2221 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time
- 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM
2079 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving.
- 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM
2096 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place
- 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM
2119 Views
How did she know there was a shield?
- 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM
2067 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source...
- 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM
2047 Views
Who said "they"?
- 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM
2045 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe
- 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM
2116 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded
- 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM
1959 Views
Provide evidence?
- 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM
2063 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder
- 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM
1970 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect
- 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM
1914 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal?
- 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM
2178 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded.
- 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM
2971 Views
So?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM
1862 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source
- 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM
1959 Views
we don't know that
- 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM
2026 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence...
- 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM
2002 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her
- 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM
1893 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand)
- 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM
2028 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM
1994 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM
2144 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too!
- 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM
4043 Views
Well...
- 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM
2029 Views
She says...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM
2043 Views
no one is arguing that
- 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM
2025 Views
Er...
- 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM
1969 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM
2789 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM
2751 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong
- 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM
2037 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM
2100 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM
1986 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
2012 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
2012 Views
Re:
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2104 Views
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2104 Views
Really?
- 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM
2085 Views
Re: Really?
- 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM
1964 Views
That's my point *NM*
- 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM
1239 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk).
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1291 Views
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1291 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both
- 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM
1966 Views
Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM
2090 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM
1972 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM
1959 Views
Nope
- 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM
1866 Views
Re: Nope
- 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM
2008 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to
- 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM
1892 Views
Well...
- 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM
2092 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM
2246 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM
2057 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene
- 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM
2036 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield?
- 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM
1969 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM*
- 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM
1332 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well
- 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM
1990 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM
1273 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM*
- 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM
1224 Views
Well, exactly!
- 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM
2031 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal
- 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM
2287 Views
What I think happened
- 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM
2001 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM
1959 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM
2073 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM
3071 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM
3484 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate...
- 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM
1977 Views
she never shielded them
- 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM
1968 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both...
- 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM
1911 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM
2034 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM
1967 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too..
- 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM
2077 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there...
- 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM
1892 Views
Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM
1987 Views
Re: Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM
1934 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM
2039 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM
2074 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally
- 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM
2013 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha
- 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM
2011 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this
- 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM
2253 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal.
- 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM
2085 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM
1218 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM
2025 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene...
- 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM
2123 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself!
- 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM
2136 Views
I'm happy there wasn't...
- 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM
2102 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM
2057 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM
2201 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series...
- 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM
1946 Views
For the record
- 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM
2162 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM
1371 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump?
- 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM
2162 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though.
- 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM
2022 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM
2204 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM
1241 Views
I tend to agree
- 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM
2016 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex
- 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM
2636 Views
Yes, but its still a little off
- 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM
2051 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand?
- 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM
2187 Views
Aran'gar is a tool
- 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM
2251 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM
2009 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM
1930 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party...
- 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM
1897 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead?
- 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM
2025 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM*
- 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM
1267 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM*
- 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM
1216 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM
2181 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM
2107 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2171 Views
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2171 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part
- 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM
2800 Views
No way
- 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM
2022 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out
- 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM
2196 Views

*NM*

*NM*
*NM*