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Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM

My point here is that Aran'gar should be far too strong for Graendal to cut off so easily, especially since she is splitting her flows. One "gasp" from Aran'gar is not IMO sufficient evidence to conclusively prove that she was already holding saidin when the shield was put on her. We'll never know either way unless someone asks the author ... and if he agrees with you I'd love to hear him explain how Graendal managed such an impressive feat of channeling.


What do you base this on? Clearly its all about strength because Aran'gar was just standing there. But we've seen channelers of high and equal strength shield each other without too much effort. In fact, Talaan shields Nynaeve with no strain at all despite Nynaeve's efforts. I really don't understand your contention. Graendal only needs to be as strong as Aran'gar to pull this off, and that is a real possibility.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9138 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2569 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2336 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2280 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2129 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2262 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1304 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2383 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1415 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2453 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1310 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1278 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1304 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2331 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1359 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1286 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2186 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2992 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2046 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2358 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2125 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2644 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2198 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2146 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2158 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2111 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1987 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2129 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2215 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2096 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1924 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2049 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2266 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2153 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1984 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2072 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2067 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2014 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2110 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2028 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1128 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 1923 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1236 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1895 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2450 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1933 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1950 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2085 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1937 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1979 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1829 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1931 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1939 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1967 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1927 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1905 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1882 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 1958 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 1902 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1847 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1917 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1832 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1898 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1181 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1028 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1797 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2044 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2843 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1726 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1826 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1963 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1888 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1816 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1874 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1772 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1897 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1861 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2006 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3897 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1912 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1910 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1876 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1835 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2659 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2611 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1890 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1973 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1864 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1871 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1989 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1949 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1817 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1164 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1213 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1174 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1873 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1853 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1834 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1961 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1825 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1826 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1729 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1888 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1994 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1889 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1765 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1946 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2093 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1913 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 1910 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2060 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1836 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1922 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1839 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1275 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1860 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1209 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1160 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1893 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2146 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1863 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1827 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1940 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1891 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1908 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1839 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2946 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3358 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1828 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1832 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1780 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1893 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1835 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1834 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1943 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1750 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1922 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1760 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1842 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1830 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1796 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 1905 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 1947 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1860 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1872 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1980 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1126 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2105 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 1951 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1137 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 1885 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 1974 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2004 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 1979 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 1927 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2063 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1806 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1807 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2118 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2011 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1888 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1963 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1302 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2032 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 1900 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2090 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1182 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1236 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1853 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1181 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1883 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2508 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1917 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2071 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1977 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2051 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2009 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1889 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2050 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2098 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1151 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2282 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1912 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1967 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2097 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 1874 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1811 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1765 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1920 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2083 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 1916 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1193 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1153 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2010 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2039 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1964 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2039 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2648 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1952 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1985 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1895 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2071 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1196 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1899 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2436 Views
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