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Mostly agree darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM
Arguments that Aran'gar couldn't have survived if he was weaker don't make sense, since Moghedien clearly did. None of the Forsaken seem to think Moghedien was especially weak in the OP. Which tells me the general range of the Forsaken is a little more spread out.

I also think the fact that Graendal can do all this either on her own or with a weak angreal proves that she is at the higher levels, and almost certainly equalled Sammael at least, as Moridin's PoV suggested. This also lends further credence to the theory that Lanfear was, for all intents and purposes, as strong as Rand and Ishamael.


Graendal seems to be the second strongest of the women and this (angreal or no) drives that point home.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8301 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2071 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1821 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1751 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1618 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1729 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1821 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1159 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 1939 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1047 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1020 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1803 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1110 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1017 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1649 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2418 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1494 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1846 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1599 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2110 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1660 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1626 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1618 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1577 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1440 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1699 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1572 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1384 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1520 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1724 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1622 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1434 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1549 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1520 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1456 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1565 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1511 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 883 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 994 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1378 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1897 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1397 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1434 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1552 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1426 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1435 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1291 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1373 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1401 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1438 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1372 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1386 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1361 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1314 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1386 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1293 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1348 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 930 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 802 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1276 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1501 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2297 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1220 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1323 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1422 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1349 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1302 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1356 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1260 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1346 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1347 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1447 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3388 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1393 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1401 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1345 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1298 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2122 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2086 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1352 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1426 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1332 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1339 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1456 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1403 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1298 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 935 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1350 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1320 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1328 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1407 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1289 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1286 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1198 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1341 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1458 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1340 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1239 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1426 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1534 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1383 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1505 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1319 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1393 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1325 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1333 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 965 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 934 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1398 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1351 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1308 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1400 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1392 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1383 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1290 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2404 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2850 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1293 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1304 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1252 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1347 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1307 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1325 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1382 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1247 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1385 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1252 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1311 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1301 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1265 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1321 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1331 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1439 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 884 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1580 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1592 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1491 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1383 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1426 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1540 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 927 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 986 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1363 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 956 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1364 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 1965 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1410 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1567 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1439 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1528 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1487 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1379 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1528 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1553 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 891 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1758 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1405 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1429 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1562 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1402 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1521 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1458 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1483 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1462 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2103 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1414 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1447 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1368 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 931 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1360 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1861 Views

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