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Really? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM

I'm not alone in that opinion. We've seen time and again how difficult shielding someone can be unless you are much stronger ... perhaps Aran'gar gasped because she looked at Graendal's face and say her fear. Perhaps it's as you say and Graendal wore her angreal and was actually that strong. But just assuming Graendal could cut her off unaided while Traveling and shielding another makes no sense.

If Aran'gar is as strong as Moghedien (in absolute terms), and Graendal is about as strong as Sammael/Demandred, I wouldn't be surprised if she could do all she did.

Delana is pathetically weak. She's not much stronger than Liandrin, and we saw how easily Moggy shielded her even when weakened by Healing. Plus, is it very likely Delana wouldn't dare hold the source in front of the Foresaken unless given permission. Thus, Graendal would have had to use very little to shield her.

If Aran'gar was definitely weaker than Graendal, Graendal would still be using the bulk of her power to shield Aran'gar. I'm arguing she's strong enough that she can make a small Gateway and shield a non-channeling Delana at the same time. It isn't so very impossible.

If she had her very weak angreal, this becomes still easier. In her next scene, we'll know if she has an angreal, clearing this confusion up.

But either way, if Graendal was say strength 95, and Aran'gar was about 70, then this scene works.

From Nyn and Moggy's battle in tSR, we know that you don't have to put your full strength into shielding someone as strong as you (since both women threw a shield at each other, and had enough left to block the other as well). Which means Graendal probably used around 60 strength on Aran'gar, around 15 or so for Delana (since you need even less to shield a woman not channeling) and used the other 20 strength for her Gateway.

In all probability, she used even less for the shield on Aran'gar.
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I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2051 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2051 Views
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Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1943 Views
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OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1867 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1990 Views
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Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1843 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1889 Views
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I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1820 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1858 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1875 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1827 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1799 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1795 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1757 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1798 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1726 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1800 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1127 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 986 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1719 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1947 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2753 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1641 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1725 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1854 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1792 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1727 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1777 Views
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What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1789 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1764 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1898 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3810 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1824 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1834 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1779 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1731 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2562 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2524 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1796 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1860 Views
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- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1762 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1894 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1854 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1729 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1120 Views
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Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1759 Views
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Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1859 Views
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Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1719 Views
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Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1895 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1783 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1660 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1845 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1975 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1822 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1944 Views
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see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1819 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1762 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1764 Views
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It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1741 Views
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Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1793 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1816 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1737 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2850 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3272 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1722 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1732 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1688 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1802 Views
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LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1752 Views
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I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1811 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1668 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1750 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1738 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1693 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1746 Views
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I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1884 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1082 Views
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So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2038 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1927 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1808 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1866 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2000 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1133 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1183 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1751 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1139 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1789 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2400 Views
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Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1986 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1890 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1951 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1921 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1795 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1957 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2001 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1098 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2198 Views
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Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1994 Views
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Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1992 Views
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Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1872 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2551 Views
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I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1145 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1809 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2324 Views

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