I'm not alone in that opinion. We've seen time and again how difficult shielding someone can be unless you are much stronger ... perhaps Aran'gar gasped because she looked at Graendal's face and say her fear. Perhaps it's as you say and Graendal wore her angreal and was actually that strong. But just assuming Graendal could cut her off unaided while Traveling and shielding another makes no sense.
If Aran'gar is as strong as Moghedien (in absolute terms), and Graendal is about as strong as Sammael/Demandred, I wouldn't be surprised if she could do all she did.
Delana is pathetically weak. She's not much stronger than Liandrin, and we saw how easily Moggy shielded her even when weakened by Healing. Plus, is it very likely Delana wouldn't dare hold the source in front of the Foresaken unless given permission. Thus, Graendal would have had to use very little to shield her.
If Aran'gar was definitely weaker than Graendal, Graendal would still be using the bulk of her power to shield Aran'gar. I'm arguing she's strong enough that she can make a small Gateway and shield a non-channeling Delana at the same time. It isn't so very impossible.
If she had her very weak angreal, this becomes still easier. In her next scene, we'll know if she has an angreal, clearing this confusion up.
But either way, if Graendal was say strength 95, and Aran'gar was about 70, then this scene works.
From Nyn and Moggy's battle in tSR, we know that you don't have to put your full strength into shielding someone as strong as you (since both women threw a shield at each other, and had enough left to block the other as well). Which means Graendal probably used around 60 strength on Aran'gar, around 15 or so for Delana (since you need even less to shield a woman not channeling) and used the other 20 strength for her Gateway.
In all probability, she used even less for the shield on Aran'gar.
I don't think a good case can be made for Aran'gar being as weak as Moghedien, or in that vicinity. Like Graendal, Aran'gar faced a large circle at the Cleansing and killed one of the members. There are hints that Balthamel was a very strong male, and I'd bet close to or equal to Graendal in power.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion
- 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM
9230 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!!
- 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM
2632 Views
A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM
2408 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird
- 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM
2352 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM
1353 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM
1458 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!)
- 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM
2531 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM*
- 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM
1314 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM
1341 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM*
- 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM
1352 Views
Regarding Graendal
- 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM
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a very weak angreal
- 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM
2240 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone.
- 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM
2198 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream
- 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM
2304 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM
2360 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply
- 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM
2238 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not
- 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM
2053 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not.
- 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM
2149 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time?
- 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM
2136 Views
I think so, yes.
- 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM
2085 Views
I don't think so actually
- 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM
2198 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling
- 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM
2111 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM
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Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd
- 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM
1993 Views
So here's what happens...
- 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM
2529 Views
Thanks. A few comments...
- 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM
2015 Views
I don't rule out the angreal...
- 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM
2009 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so...
- 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM
2158 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time
- 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM
2011 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving.
- 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM
2019 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place
- 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM
2038 Views
How did she know there was a shield?
- 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM
2007 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source...
- 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM
1982 Views
Who said "they"?
- 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM
1971 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe
- 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM
2049 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded
- 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM
1904 Views
Provide evidence?
- 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM
2000 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder
- 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM
1909 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect
- 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM
1856 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal?
- 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM
2110 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded.
- 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM
2911 Views
So?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM
1791 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source
- 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM
1908 Views
we don't know that
- 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM
1962 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence...
- 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM
1943 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her
- 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM
1840 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand)
- 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM
1971 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM
1940 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion.
- 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM
2066 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too!
- 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM
3963 Views
Well...
- 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM
1970 Views
She says...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM
1978 Views
no one is arguing that
- 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM
1958 Views
Er...
- 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM
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I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM
2731 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded
- 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM
2687 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong
- 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM
1982 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM
2040 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough.
- 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM
1918 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
1940 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM
1940 Views
Re:
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2046 Views
. The evidence is that no channeled is that strong!
- 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM
2046 Views
Really?
- 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM
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Re: Really?
- 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM
1889 Views
That's my point *NM*
- 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM
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Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk).
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1256 Views
*NM*
- 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM
1256 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both
- 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM
1909 Views
Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM
2028 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM
1908 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then...
- 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM
1909 Views
Nope
- 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM
1799 Views
Re: Nope
- 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM
1956 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to
- 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM
1836 Views
Well...
- 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM
2016 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM
2190 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal
- 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM
1988 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene
- 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM
1975 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield?
- 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM
1911 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM*
- 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM
1301 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well
- 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM
1933 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM*
- 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM
1241 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM*
- 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM
1197 Views
Well, exactly!
- 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM
1966 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal
- 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM
2228 Views
What I think happened
- 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM
1933 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM
1899 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue...
- 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM
2015 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM
3013 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source...
- 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM
3429 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate...
- 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM
1911 Views
she never shielded them
- 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM
1904 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both...
- 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM
1854 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM
1967 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned
- 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM
1906 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too..
- 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM
2014 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there...
- 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM
1831 Views
Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM
1923 Views
Re: Mostly agree
- 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM
1872 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM
1972 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place...
- 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM
2005 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally
- 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM
1941 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha
- 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM
1952 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this
- 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM
2188 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal.
- 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM
2018 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM
1181 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time...
- 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM
1962 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene...
- 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM
2062 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself!
- 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM
2078 Views
I'm happy there wasn't...
- 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM
2042 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM
1993 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power?
- 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM
2135 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series...
- 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM
1879 Views
For the record
- 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM
2083 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM
1331 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump?
- 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM
2105 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though.
- 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM
1959 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place?
- 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM
2151 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM*
- 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM
1211 Views
I tend to agree
- 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM
1959 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex
- 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM
2573 Views
Yes, but its still a little off
- 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM
1996 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand?
- 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM
2118 Views
Aran'gar is a tool
- 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM
2189 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM
1948 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max...
- 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM
1869 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party...
- 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM
1844 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead?
- 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM
1973 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM*
- 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM
1234 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM*
- 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM
1183 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM
2113 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO
- 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM
2051 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2116 Views
- 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM
2116 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part
- 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM
2737 Views
No way
- 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM
1963 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out
- 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM
2140 Views

*NM*

*NM*
*NM*