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Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension Send a noteboard - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM
It too much resembles a "mystery" that you'd find in a mainstream fiction. Something where it feels like the author holds back information just so he can smirk at you when he gives the final reveal.


it would have been a QUITE big change of story, AND it's not Sanderson's style.
Sure he likes to fill his novels with WHAM chapters and big reveals that completely change the situation, but he ALWAYS gives hints of them. You might not notice them when first reading the novel, but if you go back, you sure will. Not to mention he will go over them in his annotations.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 9361 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! PatAtt - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2710 Views
A dove, that's weird BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2533 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2457 Views
Yes, that's the point BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2290 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2429 Views
What Ryan said. And we only assumed that they can only use those animals *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:53:05 PM 1463 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2554 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1511 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2625 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1429 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* Yuri - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1369 Views
If you're in the US, Audible.com. No clue about availability in the UK. *NM* RandAllThor - 21/09/2010 06:29:45 PM 1388 Views
I love the borderlanders PatAtt - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2491 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* Ryan - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1445 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* Guava - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1468 Views
I posted some links here PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2368 Views
My quick summary PatAtt - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 3175 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. DREWRULESWOT! - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 2216 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2523 Views
Awesome! Ryan - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2294 Views
Regarding Graendal Sidious - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2813 Views
Some things... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2386 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2312 Views
a very weak angreal darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2340 Views
Even a weak angreal malekithe - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2289 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 2176 Views
Graendal watched Aran'gar get nuked. Aran'gar is gone gone gone. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:11:41 PM 2298 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream Syraelle - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2398 Views
Probably Slayer RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2300 Views
Re: Probably Slayer Syraelle - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 2114 Views
Audio Book Matt_at_Heart - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 2209 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... Shannow - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2457 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply Deadsy - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2323 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 2150 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. Deadsy - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2237 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 2230 Views
I think so, yes. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 2180 Views
I don't think so actually darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2301 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 2205 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1212 Views
Re: I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:57:02 AM 2076 Views
no she wasn't *NM* Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1327 Views
nope, no power newyorkersedai - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 2109 Views
So here's what happens... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2629 Views
Thanks. A few comments... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 2112 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 2090 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2247 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 2099 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 2135 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1982 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 2113 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 2133 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 2160 Views
How did she know there was a shield? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 2096 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 2074 Views
Who said "they"? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 2077 Views
Depends on the level of surprise, I guess. If he was only holding a trickle of saidin, then maybe Shannow - 21/09/2010 10:05:37 PM 2145 Views
I don't think strength is the only determinant... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:24:24 PM 2067 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1989 Views
Provide evidence? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 2088 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder Deadsy - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 2002 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 2053 Views
Alright, you win *NM* Deadsy - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1271 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 1111 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1946 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 2205 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2998 Views
So? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1892 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source Mik - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1990 Views
Nice catches! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 2132 Views
we don't know that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 2051 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1986 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... Mik - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 2033 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1925 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 2056 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 2021 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 2176 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 4070 Views
Well... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 2052 Views
She says... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 2069 Views
no one is arguing that darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 2055 Views
Er... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 2000 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2819 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2785 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 2067 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 2126 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 2015 Views
fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 2038 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 2139 Views
Really? fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 2117 Views
Re: Really? Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1982 Views
That's my point *NM* darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1258 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* Bookwyrm - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1310 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* Marshall - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1253 Views
Re: She says... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 2050 Views
Exactly. fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 2005 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1998 Views
Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 2125 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 2004 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1992 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1895 Views
Re: Nope fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 2039 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! Mik - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 2146 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 2048 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to darius_sedai - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1922 Views
Well... Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 2121 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 2280 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 2097 Views
Possible, but he specifically calls out when she ties off other weaves in the scene darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:28:48 PM 2061 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 2236 Views
Oh come on.. be real Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1978 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 2072 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? Gee69 - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 2000 Views
You can sense the source when shielded. Entering a stedding you can't even sense it. *NM* Myrdhyn - 24/09/2010 02:46:09 PM 1349 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well Ryan - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 2016 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1293 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* Ryan - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1246 Views
Well, exactly! fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 2056 Views
Aran'gar and Delana were caught with their pants down by Graendal Ryan - 22/09/2010 06:40:41 AM 2326 Views
What I think happened Sidious - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 2024 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Shannow - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1987 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... Sidious - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 2097 Views
Fair point. Shannow - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 2085 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 2060 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted malekithe - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 2019 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 3098 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3516 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 2007 Views
she never shielded them darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 2000 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1944 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 2058 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1998 Views
LMAO... nice! darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1994 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 2107 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1921 Views
I would agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 2115 Views
Re: I would agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1951 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... fionwe1987 - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1992 Views
Mostly agree darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 2018 Views
Re: Mostly agree Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1962 Views
Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:34:21 PM 2069 Views
Re: Ever wonder why Graendal was given an angreal in the first place... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:50:55 PM 2112 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 2043 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 2044 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 2151 Views
*NM* alanna aes sedai - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1207 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2281 Views
Yes, that seems the most likely answer. That and the use of the angreal. Shannow - 21/09/2010 07:35:53 PM 2115 Views
Aren't female channelers more dexterous in weaving than male? So her speed could be part of that. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:42:56 AM 1234 Views
Re: Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... The Angry Druid - 01/10/2010 12:23:57 AM 2054 Views
I'm disappointed that the dove was not hidden in a background description in the tGS scene... Shannow - 21/09/2010 08:22:29 PM 2147 Views
I was thinking the same thing ... was actually just about to go look for it myself! darius_sedai - 21/09/2010 09:01:34 PM 2168 Views
I'm happy there wasn't... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:18:30 PM 2130 Views
Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:23:48 PM 2085 Views
Re: Do you have more detail on Graendal's comments about Aginor's extensive use of the True Power? fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 09:52:07 PM 2236 Views
Very interesting. Another case of a character never utilised to his full potential in the series... Shannow - 21/09/2010 09:57:42 PM 1980 Views
True... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2010 10:02:59 PM 1961 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. Tom - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2275 Views
For the record Heiko - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 2193 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC BlackAdder - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 2048 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC Heiko - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 2122 Views
I am so glad Graendal is alive. I (& hopefully other "Graendal's Alive" supporters) feel vindicated. *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 03:01:07 AM 1392 Views
Did anyone else feel that the Graendal scene was one big infodump? Marshall - 22/09/2010 03:32:44 AM 2185 Views
That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time. It didn't ruin my enjoyment though. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:12:00 PM 2050 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? Tom - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2228 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1274 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* Bookwyrm - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1388 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 2028 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1253 Views
I tend to agree Sidious - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 2043 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex darius_sedai - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2666 Views
Yes, but its still a little off Sidious - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 2078 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2254 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose Sidious - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 2144 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? Sidious - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 2217 Views
She was really surprised and scared. Rurouni_Kenshin - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 2170 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. Tom - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 2064 Views
Quite a bit... fionwe1987 - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 2201 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining darius_sedai - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2276 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* Sidious - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1242 Views
Second best prologue ever... lilltempest - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2437 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. Myrdhyn - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 2062 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... BlackAdder - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 2127 Views
Aran'gar is a tool Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2285 Views
I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:36:09 PM 2036 Views
Re: I would think this argues against your contention that she would hold saidin to the max... Sidious - 22/09/2010 07:51:53 PM 1956 Views
Remembering the last time male channelers held reversed weaves in the presence of Rand's party... Shannow - 22/09/2010 07:55:12 PM 1927 Views
Yes. s/He was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 2071 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? 4th Dimension - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2278 Views
Are Fain's resurrected trollocks undead? RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 01:43:01 AM 2060 Views
After 13 books you still can't spell "trollocs"...wow...that's just...wow... *NM* Tom - 23/09/2010 03:41:24 PM 1292 Views
Thanks for taking up space on this board to point out my shortcomings. Always appreciated. *NM* RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 05:23:19 PM 1234 Views
Sidious - 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 2161 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Etzel - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 2211 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO Sidious - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 2138 Views
Well, that is one prediction I made correctly! Etzel would find a way to make it look like Slayer darius_sedai - 25/09/2010 05:43:20 PM 2200 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part Marshall - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2827 Views
I had a similar thought, but... RandAllThor - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 2136 Views
Probably not Sanderson 4th Dimension - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 2145 Views
No way Rurouni_Kenshin - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 2051 Views
I can't see team Jordan allowing any deviation on what RJ would have laid out darius_sedai - 12/10/2010 08:32:50 PM 2223 Views
I agree. *NM* Etzel - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1276 Views
A few nits Terez - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 2066 Views
Canadian Download site alanna aes sedai - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2621 Views
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