Active Users:584 Time:03/08/2025 10:42:58 PM
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal Send a noteboard - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM
Dude, you are a freaking jerk. Your so stuck on your own flawed, internally idealized ideas that you have blindd yourself from eing able to accept any alternat viewpoint, thugh these viewpoints are equally, if not more valid than your own arguments.

A few notes:
- putting a shield on someone can be very easy, it is maintaining that shield that proves to be difficult. Since the timeframe of Graendals shield is just moments, ie- a second or two to shield as she is jumping through gateway, I fail to see why any would see any difficulty n this.

Perhaps it would have been relatively easy for Arangar to break thruogh the shield, given a little time, but this time was lacking. ie- the shock, the distraction of incredible large amount of saidin, and the extreme quickness that these events playd out in were enough to delay arangar enouhg to not break through shield immediately, though she possible could if given time, since Graendal's strength is divded in many ways...

As for detecting the shield, consider what you would do if you felt immense amt of saidin bing wielded. I would certainly reach for source. However, graendal was just a little quicker.. arangar reached just after shield in place, ie fraction of second, and thus could readily sense shield being there. Duh... is ths logic so dfficult for you?


We've seen time and again how many things have proven to change with training ... in the same scene you note with Egwene she seems to think that splitting flows requires more strength, yet by KOD she can split hers a dozen ways and more while barely able to channel.

How is this related? First off, to do all the things Rand did, you do indeed need to be strong. It isn't about how much you split, but about what you can do with those split flows. Egwene, when she was Forkroot weakened, could make almost translucent balls and rings of fire. At her full strength, she could have done much more. That is exactly her point with Rand.

For another, this is a matter of knowledge of the Power. But sensing a shield without reaching for the source is not. No one thought Egwene how to see the glow of channeling, yet she figured it out. No one thought her how to sense channelers. She sensed that in Avi herself, then later in Moiraine, Amys and Melaine. It should be the same with shields placed on you. I don't see why Egwene couldn't have felt that in tSR.

Sensing the ability in another woman is something Nynaeve hasn't learned well as late as KOD too ... yet that's supposed to be instinctive ... why is it so hard to believe that a well educated Channeler would be able to feel a shield being placed on them without trying to embrace the source?

But no one thought that ability to Egwene and Elayne. They learned it themselves. Nynaeve failed at what is a very basic and instinctive ability because she resisted using the OP and was in denial about it for a long time.

Frankly, I don't see what education has to do with sensing a shield from the opposite gender. You either feel a kick or you don't. Education won't change that. I don't see why education would change feeling a shield without attempting to channel.

For example, when Rand was in a box and the Aes Sedai were shielding him, never once did he claim to feel the shield without pushing against it. And yet, at many of those moments, LTT was with him, probing the shield, offering suggestions, etc. No one is more educated than LTT. Yet he too needed to physically push against the shield to feel it, sense the knots, and figure out if they were soft or hard. I'm sure you'll explain that away too, but the fact remains that no one has ever shown this ability, and many have shown definite lack of it.

I fail to see why you are in attack mode over this. But to use your own word ... Classy.

I'm in an attack mode because you're ignoring multiple instances of the text proving you wrong, and twisting what it says to suit your purpose. I remember you being the same way with the OP debates.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8806 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2503 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 2256 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 2205 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 2058 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 2180 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 2291 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1360 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2371 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1261 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1246 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 2233 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1312 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1226 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 2094 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2878 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1963 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 2289 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 2051 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2553 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 2113 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 2063 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 2067 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 2013 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1899 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 2127 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 2015 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1831 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1958 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 2167 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 2078 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1880 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 2003 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1986 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1933 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 2013 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1941 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 1082 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1189 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1821 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 2358 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1847 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1861 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 2010 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1855 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1899 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1738 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1834 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1869 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1886 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1840 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1810 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1806 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1771 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1811 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1734 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1816 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 1133 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 991 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1732 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1960 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2770 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1655 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1736 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1866 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1807 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1738 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1787 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1685 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1800 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1778 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1911 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3821 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1837 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1845 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1791 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1744 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2572 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2538 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1810 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1871 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1787 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1772 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1904 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1863 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1739 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 1125 Views
Dear God! The sheer amount of replies here just blew my mind, and my window (jk). *NM* - 24/09/2010 07:28:14 PM 1163 Views
Y o u' r e h u r t i n g m y s c r o l l b a r *NM* - 24/09/2010 11:30:27 PM 1135 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1793 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1770 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1743 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1873 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1738 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1732 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1639 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1800 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1906 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1796 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1673 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1856 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1988 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1836 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1956 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1740 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1831 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1777 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1775 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1166 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 1119 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1811 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1774 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1751 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1831 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1804 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1831 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1749 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2862 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 3286 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1734 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1746 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1701 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1814 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1747 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1763 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1846 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1677 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1824 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1681 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1762 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1753 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1703 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1756 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1792 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1896 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 1087 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 2006 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 2048 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1939 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1820 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1877 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 2014 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 1140 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1190 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1765 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 1148 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1802 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2414 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1839 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 2003 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1901 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1963 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1933 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1809 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1969 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 2015 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 1104 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 2208 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1834 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1869 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 2010 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1857 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 2006 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1915 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1947 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1884 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2563 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1861 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1896 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1812 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 1153 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1826 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 2337 Views

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