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Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM
If you look back at the arguments people were having, a lot of them, mine included, were that the concept of Graendal planning this entire thing was ridiculous. And we were right - Graendal didn't plan the whole thing. She couldn't have, it would require an absurd amount of exclusive predictions. That is why I thought that Sidious was wrong then, and that is why I think Sidious is still wrong now.

I do admit that it was clever of Sidious to predict the use of Delana as a sacrificial pawn to explain the disappearing Compulsion. But that was never the central aspect of his theory. It was only one of the elements that Graendal used in her brilliant plan to escape Rand. But there was no brilliant plan, or at least, none for this occasion. Graendal was outplayed.

I have a theory that Cadsuane will die before the end of the series. That theory claims that Taim will be the one to kill her. If Cadsuane were to die from other means, should I be right to claim that my theory was accurate? Maybe you believe so, in which case this is merely a difference in opinions. But I cannot say that a theory that revolves around Graendal's brilliant plan for survival is correct just because Graendal survived despite being completely fooled.

In this theory, I see two things: the conclusion - Graendal survived - and the core reasoning behind it - Graendal survived because she planned for this eventuality.

The rest are what I would consider details - that she teaches Delana Compulsion or that she already knows it, that Graendal planned this from the moment Aran'gar arrived, that Graendal and Aran'gar were working together, that Delana would be used as a scapegoat, that she would rely on Aran'gar sensing saidin, that they would both escape, and so on. I would certainly not begrudge Sidious if he had any of these wrong, if the core of the theory was right. I'd probably point them out just because it's Sidious and I've been faltering in my duties as archnemesis, but I wouldn't claim his theory wrong for this. I doubt he'd be offended either, he himself said he didn't believe that Graendal was alive, and that this was just a thought exercise.

As I remember from the time, there were a lot of people claiming Graendal had survived. And the prime reason given was always thus: Graendal is too clever to get tricked by this plan of Rand's. As you know, this was wrong. The fact that this brings them to an accurate conclusion is coincidental - I could have flipped a coin about Graendal's survival and it would give me 50% odds of getting the correct conclusion. For me, the reasoning matters.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
This message last edited by Fanatic-Templar on 11/11/2010 at 06:47:18 AM
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 1917 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 882 Views
Too convulted...... - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 997 Views
The logic is rather... - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 773 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 947 Views
Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 863 Views
Re: Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 900 Views
That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 734 Views
Re: That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 821 Views
It's not at all... - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 736 Views
Plus... - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 670 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 738 Views
exactly - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 740 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 805 Views
sorry but no - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 864 Views
Exactly - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 752 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 425 Views
Actually... - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 777 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 923 Views
It makes perfect sense. - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 785 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 551 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 848 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 861 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 762 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 824 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 516 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 421 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 828 Views
Huh - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 798 Views
Why did the lair explode? - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 746 Views
*NM* - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 578 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 930 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 652 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 741 Views
... - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 938 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 701 Views
Provide a quote. - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 839 Views
read the chapter - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 662 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 785 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 859 Views
Was that what I asked for? - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 628 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 637 Views
Oh if that's what you want - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 800 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 665 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 645 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 747 Views
Nonsense. - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 771 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 800 Views
Which ones? - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 686 Views
Re: Which ones? - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 781 Views
Well. - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 660 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 756 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 823 Views
Thanks for the quote. - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 844 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 673 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 690 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 794 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 610 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 851 Views
No. Don't think so. - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 669 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 836 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 750 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 810 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 720 Views
Yip - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 727 Views
Lame. - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 677 Views
Not really - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 622 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 465 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 677 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 767 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 865 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 251 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 945 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 778 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 680 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 648 Views
Because he was right, that's why. - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 659 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 591 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 880 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 757 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 756 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 702 Views

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