Active Users:331 Time:17/06/2025 12:57:59 PM
Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious Send a noteboard - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM
Nynaeve made a lot of serious errors in the chapter where she was raised to the shawl. It's always been difficult to keep up with Nynaeve's impulsive behaviour, and if she wasn't one of the strongest women on earth, I doubt she would have amounted to anything. The entire chapter displays how ridiculous her thought processes are.

The first mistake Nynaeve made was to break the rules of an exam. We all hate exams but only a moron challenges the rules on the day of the test. Most especially, Aes Sedai are renowned for how picky they can be with the test and how easily you can be put out of the Tower. Nynaeve starts by saying lines that aren't part of tradition. That alone could have ended the test for all she knew. All of us know how inane exam customs can be, but you follow them to reach the end point so that you can get on with your life.

After that Nynaeve carried on breaking rules. She was told not to run between the stars, and not to channel before she reached them, and she did both. After the test she initiates a saccharin speech about morality and the higher purpose that apparently silences all the Sitters (yeah right). The point of the test is to prove that the woman can remain calm and achieve a higher purpose in the face of extreme stress, which Nynaeve cannot do. The fact that Nynaeve wants to rescue children and other suffering people when she's exposed to them makes her a serious risk to a higher purpose. All the Shadow has to do to someone like Nynaeve is exploit a weakness like this, whereas a true Aes Sedai should technically be immune to this type of temptation. If Cyndane sees Nynaeve protecting Rand, all she needs to do is break Mat's legs and leave him bleeding at the bottom of the hill... Nynaeve would abandon all higher purposes and run to help him. Morally she can't be touched, but she's an utter failure in a test where the rules are explicitly stated prior to starting, and in the broader spectrum of life where a higher purpose really can be worth the death and suffering of others.

I've never thought that the test for Aes Sedai is bad. I actually think its ideal. Channeling under extreme stress is almost all that matters when someone who can wield something as deadly as the OP and is relied upon by the general populace, is raised. Consider a channeler who is in a palace and knows that she is about to be balefired and she needs to weave a gateway calmly to escape. What use is a woman who fumbles for the Source (as incidentally did happen)? What use is a woman who is disabled with fear when 100,000 Trollocs attack the manor house?

My only gripes with the test are the following...

1. It can be fatal. I find this unacceptable in a test. It should be based on illusion and have safeguards against serious injury or death.

2. Failure means being put out of the Tower. If a woman cannot channel under extreme stress, she needs to be moulded further until she can handle the situations. Its like being forbidden to drive forever if you fail your driving test. Some people just need that second chance.

Nynaeve rattled the saber because of her childish and belligerent attitude towards other Aes Sedai. She should have failed the test because she still cannot do what Cadsuane said of her in WH... learn to endure things even if it wasn't necessary. She breaks rules whenever she doesn't agree with them or reacts with hostility. She's an atypical Aes Sedai, which Rand likes, but ultimately I think she's erratic and unreliable as a channeler.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
This message last edited by Sidious on 07/12/2010 at 08:29:51 PM
Reply to message
Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4471 Views
Just like all women. - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1300 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1786 Views
I second this - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1459 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 625 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 597 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 504 Views
I think that statement says it all. - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1490 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1353 Views
+1, well said *NM* - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 560 Views
Agrees *NM* - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 1068 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1316 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1590 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 555 Views
very well said *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 498 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1233 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1520 Views
nice post - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1351 Views
Isn't it implied - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1119 Views
no they were students together - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 1076 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1296 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1219 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1240 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1323 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1251 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1144 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1272 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 862 Views
too f'n true *NM* - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 565 Views
Re: nice post - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1336 Views
On the matter of strength - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1176 Views
Re: On the matter of strength - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1163 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1131 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1162 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1304 Views
Well - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1221 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 575 Views
They're not really stupid... - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1262 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1226 Views
yeah because that's so realistic - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1170 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1131 Views
Bah... - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1284 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1222 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 643 Views
It makes you uneducated - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1136 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1479 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1464 Views
if that is the purpose of the test - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1168 Views
minor disagreement - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1244 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 1071 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1739 Views
that's retarded, imo - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1206 Views
About Elaida... - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1246 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 997 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1228 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1163 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1264 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 506 Views
As I recall... - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1195 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1224 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 971 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1105 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1233 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1155 Views
Another headless chicken example. - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1134 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 509 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1215 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1298 Views
The main difference - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1156 Views
I'm not sure I agree. - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1216 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1314 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 542 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1186 Views
That's not the dilema - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1382 Views
That's not what it's really about - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1131 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1211 Views
More like - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1119 Views

Reply to Message