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Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM

No, seriously, I really thought this was a joke. So I was preparing for some archnemesising.

...

Awkward :tinfoilhat:.


Yeah, I thought you came on a bit strong. Either you were joking, or you'd had the worst day in your life and needed to rant :P

You need look no further than the Seanchan attack on the White Tower to see that the test does not do what you think it does. I needn't remind you that the Captain-General of the Green Ajah - who passed the test - was flailing around like a headless chicken. The most competent woman there was Egwene, and she hasn't passed the test.


That is true, but at the same time a woman like the Captain-General probably hasn't seen serious conflict since her test. There's only been a lot of channeling action in the past three years.

And what greater goal is there in ignoring your responsibilities or human suffering in order to obey the voices in your head?


I think there can be greater goals under certain circumstances. For instance, if Nynaeve's task was to collapse a pass that was the only entrance for a legion of Shadowspawn, then it would be indeed wrong for her to stop and help these children.

Again, this notion fails because of the whole memory erasing. A more accurate analogy would be, say, being the only one capable of saving the city if you arrive on the other side of town within the next five minutes. But a voice in your head keeps saying "don't pass the speed limit, come to a complete stop at that corner, be steadfast." The tests do the opposite of what you claim. It claims women who are willing to ignore the greater goal to fulfill their selfish ambitions.


IMO the test is about throwing the worst distractions at you while you're told to complete a set number of weaves. It's not a judge of character or decision making, but rather your ability to ignore environmental distractions. I think its a pure channeling test. That's why Elaida beat and distracted Moiraine and Siuan before their test... it's the same thing.

Need I remind you in one of Egwene's Acceptance tests, she was given the choice between keeping the Dragon Reborn from being turned to the Shadow, or jumping through the phantom arches. So what is this greater goal that warrants giving the saviour of the world to Shai'tan?


But that's the Accepted Test, which tests whether a person wants to be Aes Sedai more than anything in the world. It's mere coincidence that Rand is the saviour of the world in that test... it's more about Rand being special to Egwene and his emotional effect on her that the ter'angreal exploited.
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4502 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1321 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1812 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1479 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 638 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 609 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 513 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1511 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1370 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 571 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 1087 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1360 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1610 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 565 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 510 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1261 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1543 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1372 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1152 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 1095 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1317 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1239 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1258 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1356 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1271 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1261 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1168 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1291 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 873 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 576 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1365 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1197 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1195 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1151 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1186 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1324 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1248 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 711 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 586 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1283 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 980 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1247 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1188 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1151 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1303 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1242 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1258 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 655 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1165 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1498 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1486 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1186 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1276 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 1102 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1758 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1250 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1269 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 1013 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1244 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1183 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1286 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 515 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1214 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1242 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 989 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1124 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1254 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1176 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 566 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1154 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 519 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1230 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1318 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1174 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1238 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1334 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 554 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1203 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1401 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 1183 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1328 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1150 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1230 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1137 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 1176 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1245 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1556 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1254 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 1205 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1246 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 1123 Views
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