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Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM
That is true, but at the same time a woman like the Captain-General probably hasn't seen serious conflict since her test. There's only been a lot of channeling action in the past three years.


True that, but it was only an example among many, and I found it especially disappointing given that as Captain-General of the Green Ajah, her entire purpose is to be ready. Aes Sedai who have passed the test have frequently demonstrated the inability to remain calm and focused in periods of stress, while Nynaeve has shown that she is quite capable of performing admirably in the most stressful of environments. Even in the test, she was focused and rational enough to go above and beyond the bare minimum requirements of walking to stars and channeling. If passing through the tests was a 'higher goal', something I would never admit to, then it is inevitable to conclude that she has achieved the higher goal plus a number of lesser goals. In effect, Nynaeve has succeeded the test better than any Aes Sedai before her, because she was rational enough to realise the full extent of her abilities and how much she was capable of helping people. She wasn't at risk of failing the exam for panicking, she was at risk of failing for not having the illusion of being serene. And that is what many of the Aes Sedai who did succeed lack - they show the illusion of serenity, but they're actually panicking.

I think there can be greater goals under certain circumstances. For instance, if Nynaeve's task was to collapse a pass that was the only entrance for a legion of Shadowspawn, then it would be indeed wrong for her to stop and help these children.


Yes, but this was not the case here. Is there any evidence of Nynaeve ever actually sacrificing greater goals for lesser ones? Nynaeve states herself that 'appearing to be calm' was not something she considered a 'higher goal' to saving people, and I would agree with her.

IMO the test is about throwing the worst distractions at you while you're told to complete a set number of weaves. It's not a judge of character or decision making, but rather your ability to ignore environmental distractions. I think its a pure channeling test. That's why Elaida beat and distracted Moiraine and Siuan before their test... it's the same thing.


I think you are absolutely correct. I simply also believe that test is the quintessence of stupidity. And I don't exactly know why, but I like writing the word quintessence :P.

But that's the Accepted Test, which tests whether a person wants to be Aes Sedai more than anything in the world. It's mere coincidence that Rand is the saviour of the world in that test... it's more about Rand being special to Egwene and his emotional effect on her that the ter'angreal exploited.


Well... you're correct, I guess. I really don't see much of a difference between the two tests, aside from some superficial ones.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4727 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1457 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1953 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1632 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 699 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 677 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 580 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1619 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1521 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 656 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 1214 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1484 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1730 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 644 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 575 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1409 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1716 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1533 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1277 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 1235 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1448 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1370 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1401 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1487 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1418 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1378 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1308 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1417 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 949 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 643 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1508 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1319 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1361 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1289 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1316 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1493 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1360 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 771 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 656 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1395 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 1115 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1380 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1308 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1268 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1409 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1373 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1365 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 737 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1291 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1614 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1624 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1319 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1407 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 1246 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1878 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1403 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1393 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 1116 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1364 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1291 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1408 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 573 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1326 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1363 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 1112 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1258 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1391 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1291 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 634 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1268 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 578 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1350 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1439 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1300 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1392 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1456 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 615 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1337 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1525 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 1295 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1445 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1265 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1343 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1262 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 1320 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1365 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1666 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1372 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 1326 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1423 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 1250 Views
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