but whenever people were arguing for that theory, we got a lot of replies that it made no sense for the DO to kill Lanfear unless there was no way to retrieve her alive and thus she died in Sindhol because Moridin had to kill her or the Finns did, and it had nothing to do with any idea of punishment.
Mind you, this in part had to do with the fact I was arguing that I was sure killing Lanfear was part of her punishment, and I wasn't so sure though it had happened in Finnland (I was arguing it was also possible it had been done at SG after her rescue, to punish her).
The confirmation by Moghedien that the killing of Lanfear was meant to punish her, thus that there was other ways to retrieve her but Moridin/the DO chose that one to punish her, means my reasoning wasn't crazy at all after all: stripping Lanfear of everything that made her Lanfear was absolutely intentional. She's the only transmigrated Forsaken whose former identity is completely taboo. It's part of her punishment that Lanfear is 100% gone. The others must use their new names and all, but they make no secret of who they were, and of the fact everyone knows. For Cyndane, it's "don't ask, don't tell". Cyndane herself has likely been warned she'll be punished for giving the others any signs of who she were.
Mind you, this in part had to do with the fact I was arguing that I was sure killing Lanfear was part of her punishment, and I wasn't so sure though it had happened in Finnland (I was arguing it was also possible it had been done at SG after her rescue, to punish her).
The confirmation by Moghedien that the killing of Lanfear was meant to punish her, thus that there was other ways to retrieve her but Moridin/the DO chose that one to punish her, means my reasoning wasn't crazy at all after all: stripping Lanfear of everything that made her Lanfear was absolutely intentional. She's the only transmigrated Forsaken whose former identity is completely taboo. It's part of her punishment that Lanfear is 100% gone. The others must use their new names and all, but they make no secret of who they were, and of the fact everyone knows. For Cyndane, it's "don't ask, don't tell". Cyndane herself has likely been warned she'll be punished for giving the others any signs of who she were.
I think Moghedien might have communicated the series of events incorrectly. She did, after all, rely on Moridin to tell her what had happened to Lanfear.
We know that Moridin came to look at Moiraine and said that it was not her. He then went to Lanfear, who was being drained by the Finns in a similar way. I think that adequately explains the loss of her strength, though it remains curious as to why this loss follows through after death.
Moridin was probably unwilling to bargain for Lanfear, knowing how treacherous the Finns are. He probably killed her as soon as he saw her and then fought off the Finns before leaving himself. That was probably his plan from the beginning.
I don't think his plan was much deeper than that really. Moridin doesn't strike me as a man who would go through too much effort to save a Chosen if the Dark One can snatch them after death and place them in a healthy body.
I fully realize the symbolism of destroying the Lanfear persona, and it follows through with Graendal. Moghedien thinks that the DO made Graendal ugly for the same reason, but its equally likely Shadar Haran tortured her to death and they put her in the next available body. I'm not sure if the symbolism of destroying their images is more probable than the theme of immortality and how the DO has permanent access to their souls that extends beyond death.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers*
- 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM
3342 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before.
- 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM
1576 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right...
- 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM
1528 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power.
- 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM
1479 Views
It was spelled out before.
- 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM
1323 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM*
- 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM
779 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea...
- 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM
1324 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events
- 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM
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I know...
- 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM
1340 Views
I'm not so sure
- 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM
1325 Views
Why question it?
- 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM
1176 Views
Re: Why question it?
- 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM
1165 Views
No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM
1392 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM
1347 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM
1311 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM
1090 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken
- 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM
1388 Views
Talmanes
- 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
1693 Views
I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series.
- 25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM
1248 Views
Re: Talmanes
- 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM
1117 Views
I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes!
- 02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM
1290 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised
- 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM
1513 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
- 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM
1346 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
- 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
1323 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
- 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM
1253 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
- 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM
1445 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM
1485 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM
1553 Views
I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
- 23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM
1223 Views
Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
- 23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM
1233 Views
EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron)
- 23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM
1347 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM
1683 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table?
- 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM
1301 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game?
- 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM
1389 Views
Interesting...
- 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM
1189 Views
Re: Interesting...
- 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
1411 Views
I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely
- 23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM
1181 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the
- 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM
1239 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL...
- 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM
1307 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers
- 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM
1477 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally..
- 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM
1112 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach
- 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM
1112 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size...
- 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM
1207 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case
- 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM
1224 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this...
- 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM
1193 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways
- 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM
1188 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World?
- 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM
1292 Views
The changes in Moghedien
- 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM
1074 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something?
- 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM
1221 Views
Well..
- 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM
1094 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me...
- 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM
1404 Views
Hmmm....
- 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM
1139 Views
Hehe, that old argument again.
- 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM
1064 Views
Yes.
- 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
1037 Views
- 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
1037 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM
1177 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM
1098 Views
Well...
- 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM
1057 Views
Re: Well...
- 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
1210 Views
Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems
- 26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM
1278 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM
1133 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM
1133 Views
As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series
- 26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM
1195 Views
Actually......
- 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM
1218 Views
Not sure that's completely true..
- 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM
1059 Views
Probably something like this
- 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM
1169 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
- 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM
1105 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
- 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM
1037 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve
- 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM
1270 Views
One thing about that...
- 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM
1142 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely
- 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM
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The reason I think that...
- 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM
1125 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in
- 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM
1177 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
- 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM
1122 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
- 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM
1249 Views
