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Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid DomA Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM
The BWB says straight out that Ishamael was the strongest of the Chosen, and it is WoT canon (up to when it was written).


The whole book is written to reflect the knowledge of fictitious 3rd Age scholars.

It's canon, it's accurate... only so far as the information from the series is, ie: unless assumptions are proven to be misinterpretations or plain wrong.

I'm not saying Ishamael isn't a match in raw strength for LTT, I'm merely saying we can't be sure of this is the right way to interpret the scraps from the AOL that appear to say this, and short of a direct quote stating this from one of the Forsaken or Rand, we'll never be sure.

There's this nagging problem you see that Ishamael stood above the other Chosen and had the same power over the Shadow LTT had.

And there's the problem that Demandred happens to have been second in the Guild to only LTT.

That opens the door wide that the quotes referring to their OP strengths aren't about their strength the way AS scholars interpret them, but about their global power.

The Forsaken almost never refer to their comparative raw strengths, if you noticed. They don't think like Third Age channelers.

I think you're wrong about Aginor. We know he used the OP/TP in his work, it's very clear it's fundamentally OP related work. He refers vaguely to the challenge making the Shadowspawn represented in LOC.

That may be his only true Talent, but it was amazing.

I'm not convinced about Demandred/LTT. Both have not demonstrated any outstanding Talent, nor referred to them. It's especially suspicious in the case of Demandred as you'd hardly expect humility from him in his POV (or for that matter from LTT).

Lanfear is totally biased when she speaks of LTT.





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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2325 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1333 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1459 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1297 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 1161 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 1205 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1382 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 1212 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 1202 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 1222 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1424 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 1178 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1256 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 1211 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1269 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 1147 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1293 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1248 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 1136 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1271 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 1140 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 1101 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 1203 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1267 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 1217 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 783 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 1167 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 786 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 1195 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 1060 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1266 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 1154 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 1127 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 1170 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 1148 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 1191 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 1203 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 762 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 1040 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 1168 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 1058 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 1210 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 1179 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1304 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 1201 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1193 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 1147 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 1183 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 1134 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 1065 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 1017 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 1139 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 1216 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 1137 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 1127 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 1154 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 1126 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 1074 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 1191 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 1091 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 1149 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 749 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 1161 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 1102 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 1191 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 1198 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 1166 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 1148 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 1213 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 1159 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1256 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 1189 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 1094 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 1125 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 1161 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 1096 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 1107 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 1130 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 1054 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 1169 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 717 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 1140 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 1145 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 1095 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 1054 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 1179 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 1058 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 1178 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1229 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 1096 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 1129 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 1055 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1296 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 1143 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 1067 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 1076 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1298 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 1092 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 1161 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 1132 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 1140 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 1162 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 1083 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 1191 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 1111 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 1086 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 988 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1223 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 1042 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1245 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 1099 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 1220 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 1200 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 1187 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 1157 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 1025 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1582 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 1153 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 1203 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 1175 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 994 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 1200 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 1069 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 1128 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 1210 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1499 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 1164 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1475 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 1197 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 1180 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1205 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1229 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1275 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 1118 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 989 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 1210 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 1255 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 1111 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 1112 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 1140 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 1095 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1344 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 1153 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 1192 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1522 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1270 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1577 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 980 Views

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