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No Sidious Send a noteboard - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM
Egwene is noting Mesaana's strength of will in TAR when she makes the comment about not daring to face her alone ... she nearly lost her mind just minutes prior

As for Egwene facing Mesaana ... there are several comments around Egwene's plans and then there is the fact that she was alone when she thought Mesaana was coming for her.

Mesaana would need something grand to offset so many failures. Killing Egwene would work. That might send the White Tower back into division.

Gawyn had been mortified when she'd said she might use herself as bait. Dared she do so? She gripped the railing, standing above the Tower, above the city that depended on her, looking out on a world that needed her.

Something had to be done; Mesaana had to be drawn out. If what Saerin said was true, then the woman would be willing to fight directly—she wouldn't hide and poke from the shadows. Egwene's task, then, was to tempt her with an opportunity, one that didn't seem obvious, one she couldn't resist.


a plan which she shared with NO ONE

Then there is this:

She folded her arms beneath her breasts. He could almost feel the heat of her anger. "Your yelling has drawn half of the White Tower. They saw you captured. The assassin probably knows, now, about my weaves."

"Light, Egwene! You talk as if I did it on purpose. I was only trying to protect you."

"I didn't ask for your protection! I asked for your obedience! Gawyn, don't you see the opportunity we've missed? If you hadn't scared Mesaana away, she'd have walked into my traps!"


Making it even more clear that Egwene had a plan all her own ... you know as well as I do that an Amyrlin is not allowed to willingly put herself in danger so the Hall would never have approved of this.

then we have her direct statement:

"I have sisters researching everything we can find about Mesaana," Egwene continued. "She's not a warrior, Gawyn. She's an administrator, a planner. If I can confront her, I can defeat her. But we must find her first. Exposing myself is only one of my plans—and you are right, it is dangerous. But my precautions have been extensive."

Now consider that when Gawyn sets off her wards she is alone, no one else is in the room, just Egwene, waiting for Mesaana. She clearly thinks she can confront Mesaana 1:1 and come out victorious.

Personally I think she's being foolish, she's likely thinking in terms of their strength being close enough for Egwene to have a chance against a woman who is not a warrior, but realistically Mesaana should be far more skilled than Egwene.

In the end Mesaana was stupid and arrogant and played into Egwene's strength in TAR rather than attempt an OP duel ... odd, if as you say, she was so much stronger than Egwene, she could have easily finished the job this way. Why risk confronting a Dreamer in TAR when you should be able to manhandle her with your superior OP strength and knowledge?


As I said... an ambush! She prepared snares for Mesaana.

Egwene notes Mesaana's strength in the Power in TAR. After that she decides not to go for Mesaana directly.

Egwene is a dreamwalker. Why would Egwene not go for Mesaana there? If anything, TAR is the best place to ambush Mesaana. It's where Egwene is strongest! Clearly Mesaana stands so far above her that Egwene would be fish-bait even there.

Even if Egwene is as strong as Mesaana in the OP, I fail to see how she would have defeated her without skill in the real world. Mesaana is much more knowledgeable about saidar. It would have been a Cyndane/Alivia battle without the angreal.

Anyway... whatever... we've debated this before. Elayne had to pick up an angreal and draw through it to pass off as a Forsaken.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
This message last edited by Sidious on 20/11/2012 at 05:01:32 PM
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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2370 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1384 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1497 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1336 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 1194 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 1238 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1417 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 1248 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 1235 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 1263 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1454 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 1212 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1290 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 1265 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1312 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 1179 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1322 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1293 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 1184 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1302 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 1183 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 1132 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 1239 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1318 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 1261 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 798 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 1207 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 802 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 1238 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 1093 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1300 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 1188 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 1160 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 1209 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 1182 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 1215 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 1243 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 775 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 1071 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 1212 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 1103 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 1248 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 1205 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1335 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 1242 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1244 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 1194 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 1219 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 1176 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 1098 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 1052 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 1177 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 1251 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 1179 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 1165 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 1185 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 1175 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 1112 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 1229 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 1129 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 1188 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 768 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 1198 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 1141 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 1227 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 1233 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 1209 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 1185 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 1267 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 1208 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1295 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 1225 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 1132 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 1159 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 1191 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 1122 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 1127 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 1161 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 1100 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 1197 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 737 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 1178 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 1177 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 1123 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 1087 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 1226 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 1095 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 1233 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1267 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 1135 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 1166 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 1090 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1344 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 1173 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 1108 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 1114 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1336 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 1128 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 1202 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 1170 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 1179 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 1200 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 1123 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 1225 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 1151 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 1120 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 1031 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1262 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 1069 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1278 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 1142 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 1245 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 1249 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 1226 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 1194 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 1055 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1627 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 1185 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 1245 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 1210 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 1022 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 1234 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 1107 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 1164 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 1248 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1538 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 1208 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1512 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 1236 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 1222 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1234 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1266 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1302 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 1157 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 1020 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 1240 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 1305 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 1139 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 1156 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 1191 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 1132 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1381 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 1189 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 1239 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1550 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1308 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1619 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 1002 Views

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