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It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour Sidious Send a noteboard - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM

The thing is, everyone else has matured.

Rand, Mat and Perrin are friends, but don't nearly have that old relationship they used to. You'd never catch Perrin saying "My Lord Dragon," and nor should he, but he was willing to work with Rand

Everyone respects Nynaeve, but not to the point where they are afraid of her, and Nynaeve in turn accepts that she's no longer their Wisdom.

Thom hasn't interacted with Rand in a while, but even their relationship matured- Thom kept being a mentor figure to be listened to, but it became more that he was an advisor than a grizzled old man keeping a kid from cutting his neck while shaving (which was how it was in EotW)


And as for "Egwene and Rand have been fighting since they were toddlers..." from tDR on, Rand hasn't been fighting with Egwene- Egwene has been fighting with Rand. Their relationship isn't a "buddy-buddy bickering" relationship- it's a "I'm still the domineering girl from the village of our childhood still treating you like you're a stuttering man-child that doesn't know what's best for you" relationship.

tl;dr "Proving she's better than Rand" is not an admirable, healthy or mature state for the leader of the Lightside's female channelers to be in.


Egwene has been the most mature of the Emonds Fielders since the beginning. Since the start of the series she's openly stated that she's wanted to become an Aes Sedai. Nynaeve, Mat, Rand and Perrin all denied and resented their destinies for the greater part of the series. How can you say that everyone has matured except Egwene? If anything, the others are finally starting to behave like adults.

There are multiple quotes in the series showing that Rand doesn't want to trust Egwene. He's paranoid by nature. When she arrived to warn him about the Aes Sedai trying to capture him, he laughs at her and ignores her warning, only to be captured a week later and tortured. By TGS, everyone is afraid of Rand, even his own father. And don't forget... he is insane due to some effect of the taint, and other issues.

Almost all the Emond's Fielders treat Rand the same as they used to. Perrin has nothing to say because he's too dimwitted, but even he has commented. Mat is childish with no real purpose in life unless someone gives it to him, and he too will say something of use. Nynaeve and Egwene are the only two who tell Rand exactly what they think, with Nynaeve doing exactly that in TGS despite his homicidal tendencies. Egwene's certainly going to give him a run for his money when they finally meet. I don't know why you find this surprising or irritating.

Finally, Egwene has obligations as the Amyrlin Seat. She's not going to let the DR enslave the White Tower just because he needs them. He tried that with Tuon and the Borderland armies, and it failed. He needs a new tactic especially against one of the most formidible Amyrlin's in history, who is also notoriously stubborn in his presence.
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God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM 2708 Views
Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor? - 14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM 870 Views
It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go? - 14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM 959 Views
We all do that - 14/02/2010 08:09:51 PM 1025 Views
You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done.... - 14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM 819 Views
Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake - 14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM 1119 Views
I thought she DID say "This I Foretell?" - 14/02/2010 07:24:19 PM 945 Views
Yes she did. - 14/02/2010 07:34:43 PM 1160 Views
Take a sedative - 14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM 998 Views
somethings we can agree on! - 14/02/2010 08:12:05 PM 974 Views
None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping - 14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM 965 Views
Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed - 14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM 975 Views
If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after... - 14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM 1003 Views
Not really - 14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM 891 Views
Re: Not really - 15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM 902 Views
better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions! - 15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM 1013 Views
This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM 954 Views
actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM 910 Views
Re: actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM 1001 Views
Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM 1032 Views
Re: Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM 862 Views
yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to - 16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM 799 Views
Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it? - 16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM 955 Views
how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 12:27:58 AM 808 Views
Re: how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 03:30:21 AM 1289 Views
watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM 998 Views
Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM 964 Views
Alright enough. Will you read the books already? - 16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM 1027 Views
Fair points, & I somehow forgot that paragraph. - 16/02/2010 05:34:12 PM 941 Views
You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM 1042 Views
The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM 804 Views
Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM 906 Views
I'm going to agee with fionwe - 16/02/2010 01:07:37 PM 867 Views
Same old same old - 16/02/2010 02:01:12 PM 892 Views
that B*TCH! *NM* - 17/02/2010 03:10:30 AM 657 Views
Re: Same old same old - 17/02/2010 09:32:03 AM 1018 Views
Yes, but Egwene's is pride - - 15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM 910 Views
I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM 899 Views
Re: I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 10:39:25 PM 922 Views
I feel Galad could be up there, but we see so little of him - 16/02/2010 12:28:44 AM 917 Views
are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 880 Views
Re: are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 06:55:16 AM 984 Views
Oh, I don't think so. - 16/02/2010 09:12:57 AM 864 Views
Re: This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 22/02/2010 10:57:27 PM 961 Views
It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM 868 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM 1117 Views
this is hilarious - 15/02/2010 12:45:22 PM 884 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM 1152 Views
Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM* - 15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM 545 Views
Me. And I'm way smarter than you. - 15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM 964 Views
- 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM 1017 Views
Re: - 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM 890 Views
Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM 850 Views
Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM 915 Views
You need a re-read my friend - 16/02/2010 01:14:22 PM 911 Views
Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM 1000 Views
Re: Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 03:14:55 PM 956 Views
I've never understood the fascination with Lanfear - 15/02/2010 05:52:27 PM 983 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM 917 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM 864 Views
I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM 981 Views
Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM 817 Views
I don't think so - 14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM 848 Views
Re: I don't think so - 15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM 945 Views
That's pretty much how I see it too - 15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM 869 Views
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM 1087 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM 987 Views
Cadsuane needs to spank her. - 15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM 961 Views
yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past - 15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM 890 Views
It would be a very amusing moment. - 15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM 842 Views
IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions - 15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM 843 Views
and a massive failure - 15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM 987 Views
What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower. - 15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM 771 Views
Actually that role is being played by Covril at the Stump *NM* - 15/02/2010 02:13:42 PM 599 Views
If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series - 15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM 811 Views
But that's the point - 15/02/2010 03:26:03 PM 886 Views
Not quite. - 15/02/2010 07:11:56 PM 894 Views
Actually, you can't compare the two. - 15/02/2010 12:04:19 PM 970 Views
No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM 985 Views
Re: No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:51:28 PM 981 Views
I actually think it will go the opposite way. - 16/02/2010 03:44:19 PM 922 Views

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