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You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM
(I don't have the books just now, they're being shipped to my new address).

You've made some good points, and reminded me why I was willing to give Egwene more credit right after I read TGS. However, I would still like to see more of this from her: I definitely share the original poster's apprehensions about her meeting with Rand.

Well, others who haven't missed paragraphs showing Egwene as a sensible and stable person ridicule those worries precisely because the books make it clear that Egwene is the last person Rand needs to worry about. It has been made so clear that Egwene understands what Rand is going through that ignoring it and saying she'll go back to bickering with him as they did when they were kids is absurd.
Even in that paragraph, she judges her relationships in a very cold, professional way, which is prudent I guess but also alienates her from those around her.

No it does not. She was cold and professional because it was a professional issue. She cannot look at it as a matter of friendship or love.
Which is precisely why people like Siuan respect her so much and work so hard to keep her Amyrlin. From Siuan's PoV, we know that Egwene is more casual and friendly around Siuan. They are not just successful as mentor and student, but as friends. And Siuan respects the fact that Egwene cannot always treat her as a friend. She couldn't be a good leader if she did.
It is so immature and childish to expect a woman in Egwene's position to act cuddly and sweet when her subordinates disobey her. Its like a kid thinking their teacher hates them because the teacher punished them for their transgressions.
I do think that you're comparison with Rand & Semirhage is baseless, that scenario just wouldn't happen since you can't flee a Forsaken that easily.

Who said flee the Forsaken? Semirhage was shielded. What if they took her and Rand away from the scene before Rand came to and had a chance to speak to the sul'dam?
Rand would have gone ballistic. He'd have had a right to be angry, but he'd have mishandled it badly. He'd have yelled. He would have lost respect.
And I quoted counter-examples as well (eg with Nynaeve, who is a friend and mentor like Siuan is to Egwene).

Yes, I was wondering why you mentioned that, since Rand told her he's going to use her husband's death, and threatened her with the Choedan Kal!
And ultimately, Egwene has experienced a mere fraction (at best) of the stress and hardship that Rand has, so it's little surprise that his temper is more loosely held than hers.

She seems less damaged because she trained herself to overcome the damage. Or do you think two months as damane, when punishment involved being made to feel like your submerged in boiling water, is a walk in the park?
Rand has never been captured and mistreated for so long a time. He has never lost control over his ability for so long a time. His other issues make him have a worse time, but a lot of them are because unlike Egwene, he has refused to bend to the reality of his situation and make the best of it.
I still think that she should have really probed Siuan on why she was rescued (would again like to double check if she did in the books, but can't), because hearing about the Bloodknives would surely have convinced her that lying there unconscious was suicide. There's sufficient evidence to think that this might have actually been the fulfilment of the prophecy (dream?) regarding Gawyn deciding to kill or, or to save her life, in which case he has done the latter.

But we have no idea that Bloodknives were still there. they may have been killed by the Warders, for all we know. And her loyal Novices would have moved her anyway! Egwene is right that no matter how worried Siuan felt, she shouldn't have let that be the basis fo her decision to kidnap Egwene.
But if people judge Egwene more harshly than Rand, you can't forget that Rand has been through far, far worse than her, and faces far greater challenges.

So? Since when did it become okay to be an ass if you were under stress? Rand may face greater stresses, but her also has greater power at his command. Egwene would never have floundered about like Rand did.
Understand that I'm not saying Rand doesn't have reasons. I'm only saying that those reasons can serve to help us understand, but not excuse, his behavior.
I do tend to agree to some extent with some of Cannoli's points about how easy it was to influence and impress the tower AS.

Rand has had about as easy a time when he's tried to impress anyone. He doesn't try, most of the time, that's all.
If she can reshape them into an organisation not only of strength, but also wisdom and service to Randland, then I'll have more faith in her. As I said elsewhere, I think she's done some pretty good things (be it through luck or with the help of others, she still did them), but as a character her attitude irks me more than that of other characters.

She irks you because you're determined to be irked, and because you conveniently forget situations where she shows how sensible and mature she is. There's absolutely nothing wrong with her attitude. Rand needs to learn from her.
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God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM 2833 Views
Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor? - 14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM 992 Views
It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go? - 14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM 1099 Views
We all do that - 14/02/2010 08:09:51 PM 1157 Views
You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done.... - 14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM 949 Views
Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake - 14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM 1244 Views
I thought she DID say "This I Foretell?" - 14/02/2010 07:24:19 PM 1093 Views
Yes she did. - 14/02/2010 07:34:43 PM 1288 Views
Take a sedative - 14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM 1129 Views
somethings we can agree on! - 14/02/2010 08:12:05 PM 1144 Views
None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping - 14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM 1097 Views
Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed - 14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM 1102 Views
If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after... - 14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM 1130 Views
Not really - 14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM 1019 Views
Re: Not really - 15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM 1046 Views
better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions! - 15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM 1145 Views
This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM 1092 Views
actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: actually it's about all of the main characters - 15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM 1142 Views
Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM 1162 Views
Re: Well said. - 15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM 1011 Views
yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to - 16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM 937 Views
Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it? - 16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM 1080 Views
how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 12:27:58 AM 941 Views
Re: how is that a good comparrison? - 18/02/2010 03:30:21 AM 1474 Views
watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM 1131 Views
Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon - 16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM 1104 Views
Alright enough. Will you read the books already? - 16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM 1152 Views
Fair points, & I somehow forgot that paragraph. - 16/02/2010 05:34:12 PM 1070 Views
You've forgotten a lot of paragraphs. - 16/02/2010 07:58:32 PM 1195 Views
The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM 934 Views
Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason - 16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM 1049 Views
I'm going to agee with fionwe - 16/02/2010 01:07:37 PM 998 Views
Same old same old - 16/02/2010 02:01:12 PM 1032 Views
that B*TCH! *NM* - 17/02/2010 03:10:30 AM 710 Views
Re: Same old same old - 17/02/2010 09:32:03 AM 1146 Views
Yes, but Egwene's is pride - - 15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM 1065 Views
I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM 1016 Views
Re: I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none - 15/02/2010 10:39:25 PM 1044 Views
I feel Galad could be up there, but we see so little of him - 16/02/2010 12:28:44 AM 1046 Views
are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 1029 Views
Re: are you being serious? - 16/02/2010 06:55:16 AM 1113 Views
Oh, I don't think so. - 16/02/2010 09:12:57 AM 994 Views
Re: This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve. - 22/02/2010 10:57:27 PM 1110 Views
It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM 1011 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM 1264 Views
this is hilarious - 15/02/2010 12:45:22 PM 1026 Views
Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour - 15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM 1283 Views
Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM* - 15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM 630 Views
Me. And I'm way smarter than you. - 15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM 1098 Views
- 15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM 1166 Views
Re: - 15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM 1046 Views
Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM 977 Views
Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main - 16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM 1068 Views
You need a re-read my friend - 16/02/2010 01:14:22 PM 1028 Views
Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM 1135 Views
Re: Sidious' problem in a nutshell. - 15/02/2010 03:14:55 PM 1076 Views
I've never understood the fascination with Lanfear - 15/02/2010 05:52:27 PM 1117 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM 1057 Views
Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene - 14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM 984 Views
I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM 1129 Views
Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then - 14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM 979 Views
I don't think so - 14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM 1011 Views
Re: I don't think so - 15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM 1090 Views
That's pretty much how I see it too - 15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM 1009 Views
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM 1240 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand - 14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM 1126 Views
Cadsuane needs to spank her. - 15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM 1128 Views
yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past - 15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM 1028 Views
It would be a very amusing moment. - 15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM 997 Views
IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions - 15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM 979 Views
and a massive failure - 15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM 1122 Views
What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower. - 15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM 887 Views
Actually that role is being played by Covril at the Stump *NM* - 15/02/2010 02:13:42 PM 657 Views
If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series - 15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM 942 Views
But that's the point - 15/02/2010 03:26:03 PM 1026 Views
Not quite. - 15/02/2010 07:11:56 PM 1042 Views
Actually, you can't compare the two. - 15/02/2010 12:04:19 PM 1093 Views
No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM 1116 Views
Re: No, Cannoli has the right of it here. - 16/02/2010 06:51:28 PM 1162 Views
Well, all those beatings were in private - 16/02/2010 07:54:00 PM 1039 Views
I actually think it will go the opposite way. - 16/02/2010 03:44:19 PM 1052 Views

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