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The epigraphs. Camilla Send a noteboard - 24/11/2010 10:06:58 PM
None of the other books have these, so I think it is worth our while to look at them at least a little bit. I confess I am more familiar with Aeschylos than Penn, and this piece is from the period just before Orestes kills his mother to avenge his father. While the whole vengeance theme is obviously something the two texts have in common, there isn't all that much else that comes to mind. There is of course the problematic nature of killing in the Harry Potter universe, which we have discussed before: Orestes, by avenging his father, is haunted by the furies for the killing of his mother, but is ultimately freed from them. Similarly, Harry, by killing Voldemort, must lose part of his soul. The fact that this does not seem to happen is perhaps the most problematic part of the book (and I say this having read it only a couple of times and therefore having a somewhat a very vague notion that there is no way Harry can regret killing Voldemort -- we can perhaps discuss this later on). Perhaps this is a way of pointing out why this must be so, that the person who brings things back to order, to the way they were supposed to be, cannot be punished for doing the right thing because you cannot regret that? Am I confusing everyone?

But it is also fun to look at the words alone, without the Greek context, but introduced into the new one of Harry Potter. I am not sure who the dark gods would be, but the grief, the curse, the scream of death, all fit very well within this last book, if not all the foregoing. I am also terribly tempted to read the "torment bred in the race" as a sly kick at the pureblood nutters, but that may be taking it too far.

"Bless the children, give them triumph now" obviously resonates with (I assume) how we all felt when we first picked up the book? I know I was excited beyond words, waiting for the children to finally kick some Voldemort [euphemism].

Penn sounds like Dumbledore.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows - 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM 6109 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion. - 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM 2442 Views
Spoilers for book 7? - 24/11/2010 09:07:28 PM 2546 Views
Re: Spoilers for book 7? - 24/11/2010 09:13:42 PM 2395 Views
*cough* - 16/12/2010 01:05:05 PM 2552 Views
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Agreed. *NM* - 30/11/2010 03:22:20 PM 1313 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie! - 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM 2642 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie! - 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM 2579 Views
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Yes and no - 26/12/2010 09:21:11 PM 2601 Views
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I always forget Bellatrix is married. - 26/11/2010 03:28:24 AM 2861 Views
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Re: As Katie said, the husband is still around. - 26/11/2010 11:12:18 AM 2611 Views
Dudley - 30/11/2010 01:40:09 PM 2662 Views
Re: As Katie said, the husband is still around. - 06/12/2010 08:41:56 PM 2476 Views
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Dudley - 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM 2461 Views
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And hated that it's not in the movie - 04/12/2010 04:15:31 PM 2564 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes. - 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM 2528 Views
*spoilers for book 7* - 24/11/2010 11:47:19 PM 2629 Views
Correction - 25/11/2010 12:38:57 AM 2573 Views
Re: Correction - 25/11/2010 12:40:48 AM 2509 Views
Re: *spoilers for book 7* <--- - 27/11/2010 11:42:47 AM 2749 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM 1154 Views
The epigraphs. - 24/11/2010 10:06:58 PM 2726 Views
I had considered making a separate section just for them. - 27/11/2010 11:44:01 AM 2452 Views
other stuff - 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM 2398 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links. - 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM 2353 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links. - 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM 2463 Views
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Maybe? - 26/11/2010 11:34:32 PM 2377 Views
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Re: the film & Hermione - 26/11/2010 08:38:05 PM 2348 Views
Oh yes. - 26/11/2010 08:46:23 PM 2484 Views
Re: the film & Hermione - 27/11/2010 01:24:40 AM 2431 Views
Re: the film & Hermione - 27/11/2010 12:01:19 PM 2410 Views
Me too - 04/12/2010 03:40:38 PM 2498 Views
The Delacours - 30/11/2010 03:01:35 PM 2397 Views
Re: The Delacours - 30/11/2010 03:23:33 PM 2364 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM 2379 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM 2776 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things. - 30/11/2010 03:05:38 PM 2580 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing - 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM 2386 Views
The Portkeys make a certain amount of sense, actually. - 06/12/2010 08:56:24 PM 2804 Views
Good point! - 06/12/2010 09:59:11 PM 2479 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM* - 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM 1281 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 01:30:12 AM 2419 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 03:30:26 AM 2419 Views
Re: Any other thoughts? - 27/11/2010 12:04:21 PM 2478 Views
Mr Weasley's additions to the motorbike are hilarious. - 27/11/2010 06:48:50 PM 2512 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide - 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM 2388 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc. - 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM 2505 Views
Mrs Weasley, Ginny, Lupin, Mr Lovegood, Luna, Hermione - 29/11/2010 06:56:31 PM 2539 Views
Re: Mrs Weasley, Ginny, Lupin, Mr Lovegood, Luna, Hermione - 30/11/2010 01:54:33 PM 2611 Views
I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM 2400 Views
Re: I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 09:55:00 PM 2427 Views
Re: I just realized something about Krum. - 06/12/2010 10:06:01 PM 2616 Views
The action. - 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM 2330 Views
Plotting, mainly. - 29/11/2010 06:57:06 PM 2492 Views
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Re: Hermione and obliviate. - 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM 2475 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens - 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM 2498 Views
I wondered that same thing. *NM* - 02/12/2010 05:09:49 AM 1256 Views
I might have my timeline mixed up - 04/12/2010 04:12:50 PM 2477 Views
Re: I might have my timeline mixed up - 09/12/2010 02:38:44 AM 2503 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point... - 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM 2619 Views
Re: Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point... - 06/12/2010 09:52:59 PM 2580 Views
IIRC - 06/12/2010 10:06:23 PM 2676 Views
Re: IIRC - 06/12/2010 10:09:44 PM 2561 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM* - 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM 1212 Views
I want magic for my wedding *NM* - 29/11/2010 06:57:29 PM 1251 Views
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I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers. - 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM 2477 Views
Re: I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers. - 30/11/2010 03:24:35 PM 2364 Views
And back in book 4. Dumbledore sends Hagrid a message like this - 01/12/2010 08:33:46 PM 2448 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might - 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM 2374 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge - 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM 2374 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour - 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM 2657 Views
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Not surprising, perhaps. - 06/12/2010 09:56:58 PM 2436 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM 2468 Views
Re: Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 10:05:57 PM 2501 Views
Re: Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk. - 06/12/2010 10:10:27 PM 2437 Views
And? And? And? *NM* - 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM 1277 Views
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Plotting, writing, theming. - 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM 2631 Views
Anything else? *NM* - 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM 1294 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye. - 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM 2460 Views
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Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore - 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM 2477 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others - 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM 2611 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM 2586 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM 2658 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM 2790 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM 2464 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM 2493 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM 2713 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM 2409 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:46:58 PM 2377 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter. - 06/12/2010 10:48:59 PM 2412 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right. - 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM 2459 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right. - 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM 2425 Views
True, but still. *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:02:00 PM 1228 Views
Lights! Camera! Action! - 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM 2439 Views
Hallows and Fidelius Charm. - 06/12/2010 10:03:33 PM 2616 Views
That could be it... or some snake senses, vibrations and all? - 07/12/2010 10:03:16 PM 2402 Views
But wait! There's more! - 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM 2452 Views
As nutty as squirrel poo. - 06/12/2010 10:04:11 PM 2120 Views
Re: As nutty as squirrel poo. - 06/12/2010 10:32:04 PM 2487 Views
Oh, hadn't realized that yet either... nice one. *NM* - 07/12/2010 08:54:18 PM 1268 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers - 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM 2489 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM 1318 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM 2592 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM 2660 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM 2526 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM 2698 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM 2548 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM 2494 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM 2497 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM 2469 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM 2436 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore. - 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM 2526 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet? - 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM 2476 Views
Very, very true. *NM* - 09/12/2010 11:54:06 PM 1244 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM 2572 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM 2498 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last. - 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM 2540 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM 2397 Views
Re: I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 09/12/2010 11:49:38 PM 2428 Views
Re: I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up". - 10/12/2010 04:18:25 AM 2565 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes! - 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM 2179 Views
It is, but the general idea was clear. *NM* - 10/12/2010 08:45:55 PM 1224 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now. - 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM 2363 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now. - 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM 2541 Views
Anything else you'd like to say? *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:51:31 PM 1241 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker. - 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM 2354 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM* - 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM 1292 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore - 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM 2708 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore - 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM 2518 Views
On a side note about wands - 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM 2507 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too. - 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM 2540 Views
Harry: - 19/12/2010 11:14:51 PM 2410 Views
Re: Harry: - 20/12/2010 09:42:31 AM 2501 Views
Re: Harry: - 20/12/2010 12:54:14 PM 2527 Views
Other comments or discoveries? *NM* - 10/12/2010 09:14:38 PM 1263 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place - 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM 2402 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM* - 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM 1227 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM 2375 Views
The Gringotts book one reference fits into the pattern. - 14/12/2010 10:13:50 PM 2578 Views
Re: The Gringotts book one reference fits into the pattern. - 14/12/2010 10:27:35 PM 2623 Views
Re: red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 20/12/2010 03:37:36 PM 2796 Views
Re: red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle. - 20/12/2010 07:37:07 PM 2530 Views
Other things. *NM* - 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM 1151 Views
Film stuff - 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM 2411 Views
Excellent point. - 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM 2396 Views
Re: Excellent point. - 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM 2429 Views
Are we talking about film or book here? - 20/12/2010 12:58:46 AM 2327 Views
Both, ideally. - 20/12/2010 09:43:06 AM 2326 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated. - 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM 2419 Views
I had not made the goblin/Jews connection *NM* - 22/12/2010 09:31:59 AM 1266 Views
Seconded. - 26/12/2010 08:29:44 PM 2503 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM 1281 Views
Characters *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM 1208 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins - 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM 2707 Views
Various characters. - 20/12/2010 01:10:42 AM 2457 Views
I think Percy's coming to his senses makes sense enough... - 26/12/2010 08:47:10 PM 2781 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins - 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM 2499 Views
I seem to recall Dumbledore making a comment... - 26/12/2010 08:34:03 PM 2685 Views
Yes - 26/12/2010 09:18:56 PM 2435 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM 1253 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM 2497 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM 2476 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good - 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM 2711 Views
Other things. *NM* - 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM 1267 Views
Filch and a password. - 16/12/2010 11:51:24 PM 2457 Views
Re: Filch and a password. - 20/12/2010 05:41:02 PM 2429 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale - 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM 2463 Views
Characters: far too many to mention. - 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM 2353 Views
Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM 2721 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 07:02:05 PM 2610 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 20/12/2010 11:24:46 PM 2491 Views
Re: Too many to mention, indeed. - 26/12/2010 09:46:25 PM 2847 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion. - 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM 2508 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM 2294 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 07:17:18 PM 2574 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 20/12/2010 11:17:57 PM 2487 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 01/01/2011 10:39:27 PM 2466 Views
Re: memories, cinematic moments and parallels. - 02/01/2011 10:29:38 AM 2580 Views
Other matters. *NM* - 19/12/2010 08:00:39 PM 1169 Views
More film stuff. - 20/12/2010 09:33:23 AM 2322 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan - 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM 2372 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al. - 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM 2413 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort - 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM 2535 Views
The Malfoys and Molly - 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM 2647 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly - 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM 2603 Views
Tying up the plot. - 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM 2372 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls - 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM 2511 Views
Anything else? - 20/12/2010 07:33:53 PM 2489 Views
Epilogue: the future. - 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM 2467 Views
Re: Epilogue: the future. - 20/12/2010 11:31:28 PM 2778 Views
I'm the other way around - I mind it less this time. - 26/12/2010 09:52:21 PM 2500 Views

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