Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
Camilla Send a noteboard - 02/12/2010 06:46:37 PM
Something is still screwy with the Fidelius Charm. Earlier they mention they had to abandon Grimmaud Place as the Order's Headquarters because the Charm was so weakened. Anyone who had been told of the whereabouts became a Secret-Keeper, and it could be tortured out of any of them. But Snape already knew! Why couldn't he tell other people where it was? They only ever worry about Snape breaking in, not Snape telling others how to break in.
I think that was what the tongue-tying in Grimmaud Place was for. But yes, it is definitely a weak point. And I think it is caused by Rowling knowing Snape is a good guy. She is usually very good at covering those tracks, but I think it slipped here.
Furthermore, back in the fifth book we saw Dumbledore in Grimmaud Place. If the Secret-Keeper can enter the protected dwelling, why weren't James and Lily Potter their own Secret-Keeper? They could have kept their location a secret, and then waited for everything to blow over.
Well, the big question is whether the charm hid them or their house only. From book 2 I assumed they themselves were hidden. If they had been their own secret keepers, then that would have made it impossible for them to communicate with the outside world, and so they could not have told anyone the secret. I think that is one of the main indications in favour of the Potters themselves being hidden. There are of course explanations for why they might have used someone else for the job even if what was hidden was their house, I suppose. I think it was discussed in the re-read of the first book.
Another thing: Harry and the gang are so careful to Apparate to the top step at Grimmaud Place, under the Invisibility Cloak. But it's hard to keep balance and pull-off well. Why not just Apparate to the bottom of the steps, the road, or ever a block away, and walk in under the Cloak. Less chance of letting the Cloak slip. And I thought in the fifth book we saw Order members Apparate from inside the house. Didn't Fred and George Apparate every few feet, Apparate into Harry and Ron's room? All of the sudden Harry, Ron and Hermione can't just Apparate into the house?
Yes, this is weird. I have been wondering about the same thing. Could it be tied to the worry that the trace could still be on Harry? Although I suppose not, as I think they keep doing it after Lupin has punctured that theory. I think they cannot all walk under the cloak at once, as they are now all grown and tall.
And we see Kreacher Apparate out of the house. Even if it's just a difference between house elf magic and wizard magic (we've seen house elves Apparate at Hogwarts, which seems like a great way to smuggle people in), they could hitch rides with him.
Further indications of the taboo are there in that they mention Voldemort and Death Eaters show up in the square outside Grimmaud Place.
I wonder if the Ministry had Taboos set up on the Unforgivable Curses. It'd help them track anyone saying the words "Avada Kedavra" or "Crucio" or "Imperio".
Hmm. People do show up at the ministry just as Harry is shouting Crucio. But I don't think so, because nobody ever objects to Barty Jr's use of them at Hogwarts. Still, it seems like it would have been a good idea.
Hermione's unsuccessful attempts to transfigure mouldy bread lays the ground for Neville's later revelation that food is one of the few things you cannot create magically.
Neville might mention it later, but Hermione is where we first hear about it, during the camping trip. She says you can alter food, even duplicate it, but you can't create it out of thin air.
Ah, yes. I knew it came later, but I wasn't sure where. She must have looked it up after her problems with the mouldy bread.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6292 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
2568 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
2595 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
2641 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
2549 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
2771 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
2705 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
2758 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2790 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
2706 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
2738 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2811 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2893 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
2738 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
2667 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
2778 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
2657 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
1230 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
2540 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
2479 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
2582 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1354 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
2681 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
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Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2861 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
2497 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2898 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
2526 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
1361 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
2509 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
2633 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
2541 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
2479 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
2537 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
2615 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
2628 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
1307 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
2760 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up.
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1352 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1352 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
1278 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
2607 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
2508 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
2500 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2790 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2831 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
1295 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2823 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
2607 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
2612 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
2633 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
2701 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
2444 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
2707 Views
Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
- 02/12/2010 05:59:28 PM
2905 Views
Re: The fidelius charm & the taboo. Oh, and magic food.
- 02/12/2010 06:46:37 PM
2895 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1344 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
2712 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
2593 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1467 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
2586 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2809 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
2735 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
2637 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
2762 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
1364 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
2589 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
2563 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
2595 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2752 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
2721 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2790 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2924 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2590 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2622 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2831 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2541 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
2592 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
2552 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
2569 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
2572 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2609 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1393 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2735 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2780 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
2667 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2840 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
2683 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
2622 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
2621 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2596 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2573 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2645 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2599 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2717 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
2645 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2704 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
2537 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2320 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2320 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
2491 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2666 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2653 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2653 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2767 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2767 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2482 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1369 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2849 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2650 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2853 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2635 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2662 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2662 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2714 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2714 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1342 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2502 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2699 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
2699 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
2534 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1316 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2701 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
2670 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2760 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2602 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
2741 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
2762 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2915 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
1297 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
2502 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
1228 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
2557 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
2528 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
2564 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
2568 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1350 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
1277 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2827 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
2637 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
2654 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
2671 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
1322 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2628 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
2603 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2840 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
1337 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
2591 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
2493 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2872 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
2635 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
2421 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
2497 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
2554 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
2665 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
2507 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
2637 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
2584 Views

