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Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
He has to be coming back as Azhor Azhai reborn. However, I think Azhai and the Prince Who Was Promised are not the same thing; Dany is the latter and Jon the former (and they may well be two sides of the same coin, a sort of messiah/anti-messiah thing). Azhai appears to be a much darker-aspected figure. I think Jon will then forge his own version of Lightbringer by sacrificing the thing he loves the most (probably Ghost).


This is Martin we are talking about, in his world prophecy means squat, it is only 1 possible future. If prophecy is set in stone then Dany would be having the Stallion Who Mounts The World still nursing on her teats.

Martin doesn't have to do anything. I ain't saying Jon isn't coming back, I just do not know what is going to happen.
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6655 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 2201 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1193 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2403 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2358 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 2066 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2394 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 2288 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 2178 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 1080 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2221 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2508 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2286 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 2179 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 2180 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 2241 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2202 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1262 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1266 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2387 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2332 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 1129 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 2190 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 2158 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 2107 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2421 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1192 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2284 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2566 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 2169 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 2104 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 2153 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 2164 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1271 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1231 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2394 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2343 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1988 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 2148 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1972 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 2143 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 2113 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2354 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2313 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 2162 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2233 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 2078 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2220 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2270 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 2176 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 2112 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2545 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2442 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2280 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 2094 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 2034 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2261 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2269 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 2073 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 2118 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 2161 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1169 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2330 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2254 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 2192 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 2263 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 2245 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 2119 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2359 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 2124 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2352 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 2214 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 2080 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 2129 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 2282 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2237 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 2131 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2317 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 2168 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 2171 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 2188 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 2179 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 2236 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2332 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 2103 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 2086 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1156 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 2222 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 2175 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2408 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2535 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2319 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1151 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1981 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2287 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 2132 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 2170 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 2126 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 2144 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 2111 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 2180 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 1064 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 2200 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 1123 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 2120 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 2183 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 2176 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2220 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 2093 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 2250 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 2216 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2287 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 2113 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2169 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 2074 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1153 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 2113 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1988 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 2097 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 2130 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 2025 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 2201 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 2085 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 2081 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 2081 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 2061 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 2190 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 2093 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 2106 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 2161 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 2033 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1955 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1984 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 2115 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 2153 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 2111 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 2060 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 2130 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 2039 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 2056 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1924 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1990 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 2126 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 2074 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 2183 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1200 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1971 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1264 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2256 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2215 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 2164 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 2153 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 2193 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 2056 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 2209 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1971 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 2205 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 2223 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 2189 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 2052 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 2191 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2417 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 2077 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 2176 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 2026 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 2091 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 2107 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 2117 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1996 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1137 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 2009 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2406 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 2188 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 2126 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 2124 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2326 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2269 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2304 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 2062 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 2047 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2646 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2537 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 2125 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1986 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 2114 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 2095 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2373 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2249 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 2196 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2258 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 2190 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2227 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2293 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 2082 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 2135 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 2046 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 2099 Views
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