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I like your theory. Jessie Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM
Did not notice this and that caused a major :shocked: , then again Ashara is probably not going to be important to the main story again unless she is Septa Lemore (one of Young Griff's teachers that Tyrion has the hots for).


I think she's important only in as much as she was being used as one of Ned's cover stories for the mother of Jon Snow, but Barristan's musings on her seem to eliminate her from that role (since she had a girl, not a boy, and she was stillborn), which adds to the mystery of Jon's parentage.

A good theory that I didn't notice, but I am of no opinion of what is going to happen to Jon now, I have no clue what Martin is planning with him.


He has to be coming back as Azhor Azhai reborn. However, I think Azhai and the Prince Who Was Promised are not the same thing; Dany is the latter and Jon the former (and they may well be two sides of the same coin, a sort of messiah/anti-messiah thing). Azhai appears to be a much darker-aspected figure. I think Jon will then forge his own version of Lightbringer by sacrificing the thing he loves the most (probably Ghost).


I also think AA and TPWWP are two different people and I like your interpretation.

when you see only the darkness, know the light will soon return
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6160 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1706 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 924 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 1925 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 1899 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1595 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1895 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 1782 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1714 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 819 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 1749 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2019 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 1843 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1708 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1712 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1716 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 1736 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 978 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 973 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 1909 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 1855 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 870 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1691 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1667 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1619 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 1950 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 908 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 1784 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2122 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1716 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1624 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1662 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1660 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1012 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 962 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 1953 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 1870 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1553 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1675 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1520 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1672 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1627 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 1867 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 1866 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1697 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 1771 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1611 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 1740 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 1788 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1702 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1670 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2051 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 1979 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 1783 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1628 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1556 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 1789 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 1796 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1609 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1656 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1693 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 907 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 1836 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 1796 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1730 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 1776 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 1763 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1648 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 1833 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1623 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 1839 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1682 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1618 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1655 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 1706 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 1741 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1675 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 1812 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1727 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1686 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 1717 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1719 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1745 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 1835 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1601 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1599 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 892 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1741 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1695 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 1908 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2002 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 1798 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 889 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1532 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 1830 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1667 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1706 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1614 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1680 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1659 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1701 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 797 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 1742 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 888 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1657 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1749 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1686 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 1754 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1641 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 1799 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1751 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 1826 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1648 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1696 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1625 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 890 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1642 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1497 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1626 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1708 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1548 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1733 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1608 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1619 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1622 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1612 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1692 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1639 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1623 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1715 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1583 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1493 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1533 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1634 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1671 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1598 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1602 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1655 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1593 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1592 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1483 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1560 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1651 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1617 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1676 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 924 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1468 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 967 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 1805 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 1770 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1703 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1617 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1703 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1612 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 1721 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1532 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1716 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1710 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1708 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1624 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1722 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 1924 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1632 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1667 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1567 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1666 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1640 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1645 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1520 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 880 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1541 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 1935 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1733 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1647 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1663 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 1852 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 1767 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 1773 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1566 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1548 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2174 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 1912 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1625 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1494 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1676 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1627 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 1911 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 1749 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1738 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 1806 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1720 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 1729 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 1659 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1634 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1642 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1569 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1615 Views
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