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Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
He has to be coming back as Azhor Azhai reborn. However, I think Azhai and the Prince Who Was Promised are not the same thing; Dany is the latter and Jon the former (and they may well be two sides of the same coin, a sort of messiah/anti-messiah thing). Azhai appears to be a much darker-aspected figure. I think Jon will then forge his own version of Lightbringer by sacrificing the thing he loves the most (probably Ghost).


This is Martin we are talking about, in his world prophecy means squat, it is only 1 possible future. If prophecy is set in stone then Dany would be having the Stallion Who Mounts The World still nursing on her teats.

Martin doesn't have to do anything. I ain't saying Jon isn't coming back, I just do not know what is going to happen.
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6149 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1694 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 918 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 1916 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 1887 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1583 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1887 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 1775 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1704 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 813 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 1741 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2009 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 1833 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1698 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1702 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1705 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 1725 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 972 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 968 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 1900 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 1842 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 868 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1682 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1656 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1611 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 1940 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 901 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 1771 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2110 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1704 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1615 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1653 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1653 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1006 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 959 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 1943 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 1856 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1544 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1664 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1512 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1663 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1616 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 1857 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 1850 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1686 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 1759 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1600 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 1732 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 1778 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1692 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1657 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2041 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 1968 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 1773 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1619 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1545 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 1779 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 1786 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1599 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1647 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1683 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 902 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 1827 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 1786 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1717 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 1768 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 1754 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1639 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 1822 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1614 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 1829 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1671 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1609 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1644 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 1695 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 1730 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1667 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 1803 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1716 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1678 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 1708 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1709 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1735 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 1826 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1586 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1589 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 888 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1730 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1686 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 1898 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 1990 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 1786 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 886 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1520 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 1821 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1654 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1695 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1603 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1668 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1649 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1688 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 792 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 1729 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 884 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1648 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1740 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1678 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 1743 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1632 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 1791 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1742 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 1815 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1636 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1686 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1614 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 886 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1630 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1486 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1618 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1699 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1541 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1727 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1599 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1610 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1614 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1603 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1679 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1629 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1614 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1704 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1574 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1485 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1524 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1622 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1662 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1588 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1591 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1645 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1583 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1579 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1475 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1553 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1639 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1609 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1667 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 921 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1460 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 957 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 1794 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 1761 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1694 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1610 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1695 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1604 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 1712 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1524 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1708 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1704 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1698 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1614 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1714 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 1916 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1623 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1657 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1559 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1655 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1631 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1637 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1512 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 876 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1529 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 1927 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1721 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1635 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1652 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 1842 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 1759 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 1766 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1557 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1539 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2165 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 1901 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1617 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1484 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1666 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1620 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 1903 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 1740 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1728 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 1795 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1712 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 1718 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 1650 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1624 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1631 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1559 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1605 Views
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