And even with societal differences notwithstanding, many women (including my wife) have communicated to me times in which they were torn on whether they wanted to have sex with someone or not. Even a torn "yes" is still a yes. There is a notable difference between "coerced consent" (and what is that, anyway? If you define it as some sort of extortion, then certainly that is terrible, but if you define it as seduction, then I don't know what we're arguing about here) and rape.
R Kelly said it best when he said "My mind's telling me no, but my body...my body's telling me yes." I didn't read Dany's initial scene with Drogo as rape at all, but as a situation where she wished her life had been different and yet within the circumstances DECIDED - by saying yes and moving his hand - that this was going to happen.
Rape is possibly the single most heinous crime in existence, since it is such a fundamental betrayal of the human right to Self. There's no discussion there. This, however, was not rape.
Nobody is arguing that she does not say yes at that point. The arguemnt is that she is 13 and therefore not in a position to give consent, and that it is therefore especially problematic that Martin emphasises the consent to such an extent.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
A Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin
- 13/08/2012 10:48:37 PM
20561 Views
Fascinating.
- 13/08/2012 11:40:22 PM
2816 Views
On the Rape issue....
- 14/08/2012 01:19:35 AM
2646 Views
Re: On the Rape issue....
- 14/08/2012 02:02:42 AM
2492 Views
Firstly, Camilla is a she. Secondly, though I won't speak for her, regarding the rape in the novels,
- 14/08/2012 02:23:19 AM
2668 Views
Camilla is indeed a she.
- 14/08/2012 06:18:58 AM
2542 Views
Re: On the Rape issue....
- 14/08/2012 06:17:55 AM
2483 Views
How is that a violent rape? At worst it would be statutory rape.
- 17/08/2012 11:53:44 AM
2646 Views
The wedding night is statutory. I would describe the later rapes as fairly violent.
- 17/08/2012 12:13:26 PM
2767 Views
That was her only sex scene, until she induces him to have outdoor sex to get pregnant
- 17/08/2012 07:20:09 PM
2582 Views
- 17/08/2012 07:20:09 PM
2582 Views
It is not necessary to provide a scene
- 17/08/2012 10:49:20 PM
2617 Views
I believe that what is happening here is called confirmation bias *NM*
- 21/08/2012 06:23:38 PM
1403 Views
I think you misread one part
- 14/08/2012 04:51:34 PM
2700 Views
I think that the Rhaegar and Lyanna stuff does look like rape in the first book
- 14/08/2012 08:10:27 PM
2485 Views
"Looks like" is this case meaning "explicitly stated to be that way"?
- 17/08/2012 11:56:48 AM
2501 Views
what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
- 15/08/2012 01:21:38 AM
2456 Views
Re: what a great review. you echo my thoughts quite a bit...
- 15/08/2012 07:39:24 AM
2778 Views
philippa gregory co-authored a book "the women of the cousins' war" - it was very interesting
- 16/08/2012 07:54:50 PM
2498 Views
Wait...why would you waste time reading this fluff series when it's out on TV?
- 16/08/2012 12:10:32 AM
2604 Views
I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
- 16/08/2012 11:52:40 PM
2408 Views
Re: I always liked the banners and pageantry - it creates an interesting contrast...
- 17/08/2012 06:33:24 AM
2681 Views
I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
- 17/08/2012 12:20:16 AM
2595 Views
Re: I think the TV series handles the problematic Dany/Drogo relationship better
- 17/08/2012 06:40:12 AM
2648 Views
I think it messed it up by showing forced intercourse without the verbal consent Drogo DID obtain
- 17/08/2012 12:07:14 PM
2636 Views
I still find it difficult to read it as anything other than a coerced consent
- 17/08/2012 01:08:15 PM
2423 Views
A perpetrator-less crime then.
- 17/08/2012 07:26:26 PM
2554 Views
Exactly! I'm on board, Cannoli.
- 18/08/2012 07:45:56 PM
2421 Views
You are missing the point.
- 18/08/2012 11:11:33 PM
2655 Views
The later books do add more context and change some of this
- 19/08/2012 12:08:49 AM
2480 Views
Jesus Christ another fucking thread about rape and fantasy.
- 19/08/2012 01:47:43 AM
1540 Views
Perhaps if reading other people's views makes you so angry, you should avoid reading them? *NM*
- 19/08/2012 02:37:03 PM
1333 Views
Nonsense.
- 19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM
1290 Views
- 19/08/2012 03:33:39 PM
1290 Views
Fixed it for you.
- 19/08/2012 08:22:18 PM
1399 Views
Oh, but that takes us back to snoop being right, and I'm sorry, but I just cannot abide that.
- 19/08/2012 10:56:10 PM
1337 Views
Shake the sand out of your vagina bitch. *NM*
- 20/08/2012 06:35:32 AM
1292 Views
Gosh, this is really turning into something fun.
- 20/08/2012 07:15:01 AM
1455 Views
Here I was about to make a "whee misogyny" post. I never get to have fun.
*NM*
- 20/08/2012 09:09:04 AM
1162 Views
*NM*
- 20/08/2012 09:09:04 AM
1162 Views
Huh. I just came to the odd realization...
- 20/08/2012 08:29:56 PM
1413 Views
Don't lock it!
- 21/08/2012 05:11:34 AM
1358 Views
Yes, I'm aware, or I might have locked it already.
- 21/08/2012 06:17:29 PM
1237 Views
That is the best written and most insightful review of that book I have read
- 01/09/2012 05:38:00 PM
2460 Views
I forgot that I was supposed to read all threads to watch out for Bad Behaviour.
- 01/09/2012 11:09:52 PM
2686 Views
