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I agree! Dragonsworn Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM
What Tom makes me thinking on here is the concept of the hermeneutic circle for interpreting text. By delving into lots of science fiction and/or fantasy literature you as a reader may get a greater understanding of that particular genres cultural origin, its literary historical context and you can get into the psychology of the text and of the author.

An example would be to read The Wheel of Time over and over again to examine and analyse the historical and religious inspirations of the world, its cultures (ex, the Aiel or Seanchan) or in what way Robert Jordan's own personal experiences (f. ex. Vietnam) has influenced the characters morals, ethics, thinking and actions and /or the overarching morals of the world that make people act or think in the way they do. Another thing you can do is to try to disect the concept of good and evil and in what way it manifests itself in the Wheel of Time. Just an example.

This way of approaching texts can be applied to probably all texts and the texts within a particular established and defined genre (if those exist)

This is all fine and can act to strengthen your intellectual understanding of a text or genre. The problem arises when you seldom diverge from a given text or genre. And just like Tom said there is nothing wrong with enjoying novels or movies within a particular genre or of a certain kind (ex. romance or action).

By broadening your horizons to genres you never usually visit you also broaden your intellectual understanding. By broadening into all sorts of genres, if only by a little, and into non-fiction (for ex. sociology, chemistry, history, mathematics, social science, religion etc) you gain a greater understanding of what the world is and why it works the way it does. And the same can be applied to literature if you get into several different genres.

To do the above example with the Wheel of Time you need to get into some philosophy, history, psychology, sociology etc, to be able to do that kind of analysis. Literature, for instance, cannot be explained solely through sci-fi, since it consists of so many other parts.

If you read works from different genres and non-fiction then you can see more of what the world of literature looks like, for example, its historical and ethical contexts and you can see why the genre of (ex. sci-fi) looks and works the way it does.

Of course there are books, movies, music and genres of these that we all enjoy maybe a little more than we do the others but like Tom said:

Sometimes we need to watch Schindler’s List or Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Diversions are useful, but not at the expense of growing intellectually, emotionally or psychologically.


I couldn't agree more!

I hope this makes any sense.
"I didn't have much to say to anybody but kept to myself and my books. With my eyes closed, I would touch a familiar book and draw it's fragrance deep inside me. This was enough to make me happy."
— Haruki Murakami (Norwegian Wood
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2247 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1301 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1286 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 654 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1212 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1308 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1336 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1288 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1270 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1315 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1244 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1270 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1219 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1267 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1245 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1236 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1331 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1222 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1266 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1322 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1313 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1419 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1308 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1252 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1347 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1261 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1411 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1349 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1336 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1313 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1189 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1361 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1228 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1266 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1536 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1192 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1363 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1297 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1342 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1333 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1385 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1251 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1125 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1234 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1307 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1232 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 597 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1305 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1189 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1345 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1308 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1244 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1273 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1228 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1166 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1253 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1312 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 551 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1333 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1254 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1243 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1173 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1169 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1236 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1296 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1302 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1251 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1274 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1234 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1239 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1370 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1216 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1207 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1228 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1209 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 646 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1375 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1269 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1205 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1242 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1398 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1180 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1212 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1229 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1183 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1194 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1224 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1207 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1109 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1181 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1234 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1314 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 601 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1226 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1255 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1333 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1223 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1253 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1160 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1171 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1306 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1159 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1156 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1236 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1197 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1212 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1137 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 592 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1190 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1236 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1822 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1173 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1323 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1331 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1214 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1372 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1233 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1152 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1174 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1234 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1177 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1331 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1209 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1186 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1205 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1154 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1251 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 567 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1236 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1283 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1147 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1232 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1206 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1128 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1177 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1218 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1225 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1233 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 598 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1156 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1264 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1216 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1297 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1277 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1240 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1196 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1223 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1186 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 621 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 588 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1189 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1217 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1170 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 629 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1318 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1194 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1222 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1276 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1239 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1232 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1200 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1244 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1179 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1321 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1310 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1319 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1186 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1156 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1294 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1266 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1196 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1266 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1266 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1314 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1332 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1241 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1302 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 518 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 642 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 626 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1238 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1160 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1195 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 617 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 612 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 621 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1219 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 1033 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1339 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1268 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1240 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1190 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1344 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1250 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1278 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1203 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1360 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1148 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1249 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1229 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1259 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1213 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1166 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1261 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1177 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1298 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1190 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1087 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1234 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1292 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1342 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1257 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1403 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1328 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1225 Views

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