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SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM
Reading exclusively genre material is of course a bad idea, and one should keep an eye on what is going on in 'mainstream' literature (and that is, curiously, at the moment, lots of 'literati' darlings writing SF) as well.

However, there is an inherent contradiction here:

"Reading science fiction and fantasy is sort of like eating fast food. There’s nothing wrong with it in moderation, but when it dominates what you read, you sit back after the fact, disgusted with yourself and say, "What have I done?"

Except of course there are vast quantities of science fiction and fantasy of literary merit, such as the works of Gene Wolfe, the magic realist authors, Chris Priest, Robert Holdstock, Chine Mieville etc, whilst there is an enormous amount of non-genre work which is mindless pap. The literary/populist division does not run between the different types of fiction, it runs through them, with each genre or form having its works of literary merit, its works of mindless popcorn pap and those works that are somewhere inbetween.

"But we can’t just watch Meet the Parents or Die Hard XXV. Sometimes we need to watch Schindler’s List or Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

That would be the science fiction film, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?
Reply to message
In Support of Other Fiction Tom - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2164 Views
Rebekah - 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1237 Views
Re: Tom - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1219 Views
you shouldn't feel the need to defend a non SF/F suggestion, just don't imlad - 03/12/2009 03:34:28 PM 1221 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 619 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. jh - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1138 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. Tom - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1244 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. The Name With No Man - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1273 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1228 Views
perhaps some university will do a study imlad - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1200 Views
I'd like to see it Tom - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1247 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1173 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... Tom - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1195 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. The Name With No Man - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1150 Views
I'd like to see it. Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1205 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1174 Views
I was thinking about that too Tom - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1163 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1270 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1165 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1197 Views
It would. Destroying the Wheel would likely make him a Buddhist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:51:17 PM 1171 Views
I Totally Missed That. Joel - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1253 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1242 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1323 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? Camilla - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1244 Views
They're Thick Bookends. The Name With No Man - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1181 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1273 Views
Re: Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:28:30 AM 1195 Views
I like it. Ghavrel - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1198 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1344 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time AgentOrange - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1286 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1273 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? imlad - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1247 Views
PJF is dirty? rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1109 Views
Nice post. Legolas - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1295 Views
Perhaps you're right. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1155 Views
In its entirety? No. Legolas - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1200 Views
I agree! Dragonsworn - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1404 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1115 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... Larry - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1299 Views
Popcorn? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1231 Views
Yes Larry - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1276 Views
Lovecraft? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1262 Views
Re-read what I said Larry - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1319 Views
aahh Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1189 Views
I'm glad I could drive you from your Carthusian retreat, Larry Tom - 02/12/2009 01:58:49 AM 1232 Views
It won't last for long - have too many things still to deal with in my life Larry - 02/12/2009 02:36:15 AM 1233 Views
That's too bad. I'll have to learn monasterial sign language to continue a dialogue. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:49:01 AM 1180 Views
Well, I understand two out of those three languages Larry - 02/12/2009 03:56:00 AM 1181 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... imlad - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1051 Views
I concur Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1161 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). Tom - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1237 Views
Thank you Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1172 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 566 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1245 Views
hehehe Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1127 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? Wibble - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1280 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1227 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1178 Views
it didn't come across that way imlad - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1202 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1154 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows imlad - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1101 Views
We agree! Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1183 Views
WoT has decent characterization, though a little overwrought. Harrington... not so much. Ghavrel - 04/12/2009 04:26:43 AM 1350 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1244 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* imlad - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 518 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1272 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1185 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1167 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1110 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. Werthead - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1109 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man imlad - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1171 Views
Which brings us back to my point. Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1226 Views
I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:24:02 PM 1119 Views
Re: I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:42:33 PM 1140 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1234 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today imlad - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1179 Views
don't get me wrong imlad - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1207 Views
"Pertinent", not "Pertinant". If it weren't in all caps I'd have ignored it this time. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:36 AM 1219 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1171 Views
No, they are not Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1182 Views
This line is a load of bull bme - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1293 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? nossy - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1142 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? Tom - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1151 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1156 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1147 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 606 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* nossy - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1300 Views
I was born in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1200 Views
I know. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1135 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1179 Views
lmao Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1333 Views
*piledrivers you* nossy - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1112 Views
...! Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1148 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1166 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1115 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1116 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1171 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. Vodalus - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1145 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1041 Views
Shitstorm! Vodalus - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1108 Views
Heh heh heh. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1159 Views
Read what you like to read. Craig - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1242 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 569 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! Craig - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1161 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1192 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. Craig - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1264 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1157 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1188 Views
Agreed. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1106 Views
Re: Agreed. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1104 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Craig - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1230 Views
I really did get under your skin Tom - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1098 Views
Craig - 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1092 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. lord-of-shadow - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1177 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. Tom - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1129 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. Craig - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1146 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. Tom - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1069 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 559 Views
LOL! rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1119 Views
See, you just proved my point. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1162 Views
Hm. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1758 Views
Re-read my exact point. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1099 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1258 Views
There may have been an assumption about literature due to the reason for the post. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:37:47 PM 1175 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1260 Views
As I see it... Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1154 Views
Yep. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1297 Views
Re: Yep. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1161 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1078 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1101 Views
I know. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1174 Views
Re: I know. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1112 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1266 Views
I wasn't looking to generate controversy Tom - 02/12/2009 02:19:13 PM 1279 Views
Well... then I'm going to have to agree with Craig a bit. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:32:59 PM 1263 Views
Well, I was being somewhat denigrating. "Unnecessarily" or not is a matter of debate. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:40:29 PM 1123 Views
Well, it's only "unnecessary" if you don't want people to be turned off of your message immediately. *NM* Craig - 02/12/2009 09:42:46 PM 561 Views
Judging from the responses, most people weren't turned off immediately. Tom - 02/12/2009 09:59:35 PM 1084 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. Jacob - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1140 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1123 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic Jacob - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1139 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1094 Views
You're playing a game. Jacob - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1177 Views
I like your response. *NM* Aeryn - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 530 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1164 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. Jacob - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1213 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1085 Views
Bulgakov Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1154 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1123 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1075 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1118 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Camilla - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1166 Views
I suppose. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1156 Views
Re: I suppose. Camilla - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1159 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* Ouranid - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 561 Views
That is what I mean Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1086 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1193 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1150 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction Tom - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1226 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1205 Views
There's an interesting book in Russian that might be translated somewhere. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:02:48 PM 1222 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1176 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1124 Views
the illiad is a classic LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1160 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad Tom - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1128 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 588 Views
Maybe not. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 550 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree Beqi - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1125 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Tom - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1143 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1110 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 589 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1247 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1142 Views
Re: Hmmm Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1162 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1216 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. AgentOrange - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1170 Views
Heh Rebekah - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1171 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom AgentOrange - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1133 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom Camilla - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1165 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1113 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1248 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1244 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1224 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1121 Views
I agree with in principle random thoughts - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1098 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1225 Views
I have a few objections. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1178 Views
where else should we talk about it? LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1140 Views
There's a difference between having threads about it and focusing the official book club on it. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:40:53 AM 1232 Views
This is the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Board for site optimization purposes. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:07:39 AM 14178 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line Chas - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1198 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Tom - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1206 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Chas - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1255 Views
That's it Ouranid - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1263 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: Tom - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1180 Views
Certainly Ouranid - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1236 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 478 Views
According to whom? *NM* Camilla - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 613 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 586 Views
Yes, it is but actually... Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1167 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1093 Views
Really? Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1137 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* everynametaken - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 583 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 573 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* everynametaken - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 589 Views
another thing wrong with your argument imlad - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1153 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 972 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) imlad - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1278 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: Tom - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1206 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1178 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough random thoughts - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1129 Views
is it just me, or is this now the largest post/thread yet on RAFO.com??? 168 replies so far! *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:03:25 PM 522 Views
Well, for once we're discussing books...and their value. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 06:54:01 PM 588 Views
Congratulations on the replies count Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1280 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1190 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1211 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1137 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1293 Views
YES. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1076 Views
NO Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1182 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. AgentOrange - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1154 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1189 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1153 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX AgentOrange - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1089 Views
This is not about the personal taste Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1190 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1111 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1225 Views
What, your penis? rebelaessedai - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1122 Views
Don't you know it! Tom - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1027 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. rebelaessedai - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1173 Views
Hate to break it to you... Craig - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1219 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... rebelaessedai - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1281 Views
Metaphor versus literalism Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1199 Views
Metaphor divorced from the reality runs risks, however. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:25:47 PM 1110 Views
Honestly, the moral can always be dismissed as inapplicable if you want to dismiss it. Legolas - 05/12/2009 12:16:39 AM 1142 Views
While that's true, it's much harder to just dismiss Mockingbird. Ghavrel - 05/12/2009 03:57:42 AM 1120 Views
Then why read fiction at all? It's all a diversion. Werthead - 05/12/2009 04:16:06 PM 1113 Views
I think people should read non-fiction, and The Nine Hundred Days is an excellent book. Tom - 05/12/2009 04:41:50 PM 1104 Views
aha. but. Camilla - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1317 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. Tom - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1257 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then Camilla - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1155 Views
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