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As I see it... Camilla Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM
as you might have hoped. ;)

I can agree with the main argument here (as stated briefly in your reply to Ghavrel), even if the way you frame it seems, to me, a little overly reliant on the concept of genres. Remember that genres are entirely artificial categories, created to help us contend with and sort through the vast amount of reading material out there. Yes, each genre has its core of "popcorn" books, like Steele for the mystery-lovers or Salvatore and Eddings for the fantasy people; these tend to be both unambiguous and unambitious. The best novels, however, blur the edges of genre and sometimes defy categorization entirely. Much of the literature you've mentioned in past discussions contains prominent fantastical elements. If not for the quality of the writing (and the thoughtful treatment of the human condition, as you mention), it would belong on the Sci-Fi/Fantasy shelves as well. (I am thinking in particular of The Master and The Margarita here, since I just saw you suggest it for the book club. Okay, it's satire, and the playful twisting of reality serves a political/literary purpose. But the same can be said of 1984, along with many many others.)


The problem is precisely book that place themselves too neatly in a genre. Those are overwhelmingly not very good.

But I also have an issue with placing everything that deviates from a fact-based world into the "fantasy and science fiction" category. This dilutes the genre too much, and renders it useless.

*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
Reply to message
In Support of Other Fiction Tom - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2368 Views
Rebekah - 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1418 Views
Re: Tom - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1409 Views
you shouldn't feel the need to defend a non SF/F suggestion, just don't imlad - 03/12/2009 03:34:28 PM 1406 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 734 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. jh - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1344 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. Tom - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1429 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. The Name With No Man - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1484 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1400 Views
perhaps some university will do a study imlad - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1395 Views
I'd like to see it Tom - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1421 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1366 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... Tom - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1410 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. The Name With No Man - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1360 Views
I'd like to see it. Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1437 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1389 Views
I was thinking about that too Tom - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1381 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1456 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1328 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1396 Views
It would. Destroying the Wheel would likely make him a Buddhist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:51:17 PM 1347 Views
I Totally Missed That. Joel - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1483 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1420 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1542 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? Camilla - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1427 Views
They're Thick Bookends. The Name With No Man - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1395 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1441 Views
Re: Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:28:30 AM 1382 Views
I like it. Ghavrel - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1384 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1535 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time AgentOrange - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1473 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1450 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? imlad - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1437 Views
PJF is dirty? rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1312 Views
Nice post. Legolas - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1472 Views
Perhaps you're right. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1383 Views
In its entirety? No. Legolas - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1382 Views
I agree! Dragonsworn - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1662 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1322 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... Larry - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1487 Views
Popcorn? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1425 Views
Yes Larry - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1463 Views
Lovecraft? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1441 Views
Re-read what I said Larry - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1497 Views
aahh Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1373 Views
I'm glad I could drive you from your Carthusian retreat, Larry Tom - 02/12/2009 01:58:49 AM 1413 Views
It won't last for long - have too many things still to deal with in my life Larry - 02/12/2009 02:36:15 AM 1432 Views
That's too bad. I'll have to learn monasterial sign language to continue a dialogue. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:49:01 AM 1353 Views
Well, I understand two out of those three languages Larry - 02/12/2009 03:56:00 AM 1370 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... imlad - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1240 Views
I concur Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1359 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). Tom - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1431 Views
Thank you Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1370 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 660 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1415 Views
hehehe Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1296 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? Wibble - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1456 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1451 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1381 Views
it didn't come across that way imlad - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1379 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1382 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows imlad - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1292 Views
We agree! Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1364 Views
WoT has decent characterization, though a little overwrought. Harrington... not so much. Ghavrel - 04/12/2009 04:26:43 AM 1557 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1437 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* imlad - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 616 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1458 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1407 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1375 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1311 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. Werthead - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1289 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man imlad - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1380 Views
Which brings us back to my point. Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1412 Views
I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:24:02 PM 1308 Views
Re: I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:42:33 PM 1341 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1417 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today imlad - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1417 Views
don't get me wrong imlad - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1391 Views
"Pertinent", not "Pertinant". If it weren't in all caps I'd have ignored it this time. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:36 AM 1412 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1378 Views
No, they are not Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1354 Views
This line is a load of bull bme - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1490 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? nossy - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1321 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? Tom - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1336 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1345 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1313 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 717 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* nossy - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1508 Views
I was born in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1363 Views
I know. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1340 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1358 Views
lmao Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1523 Views
*piledrivers you* nossy - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1302 Views
...! Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1306 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1367 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1312 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1307 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1338 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. Vodalus - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1344 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1226 Views
Shitstorm! Vodalus - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1306 Views
Heh heh heh. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1340 Views
Read what you like to read. Craig - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1466 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 665 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! Craig - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1355 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1365 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. Craig - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1442 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1394 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1367 Views
Agreed. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1293 Views
Re: Agreed. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1298 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Craig - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1440 Views
I really did get under your skin Tom - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1284 Views
Craig - 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1297 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. lord-of-shadow - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1351 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. Tom - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1322 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. Craig - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1336 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. Tom - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1246 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 654 Views
LOL! rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1308 Views
See, you just proved my point. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1349 Views
Hm. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1953 Views
Re-read my exact point. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1291 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1427 Views
There may have been an assumption about literature due to the reason for the post. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:37:47 PM 1368 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1461 Views
As I see it... Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1338 Views
Yep. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1485 Views
Re: Yep. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1350 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1267 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1292 Views
I know. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1354 Views
Re: I know. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1297 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1481 Views
I wasn't looking to generate controversy Tom - 02/12/2009 02:19:13 PM 1476 Views
Well... then I'm going to have to agree with Craig a bit. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:32:59 PM 1454 Views
Well, I was being somewhat denigrating. "Unnecessarily" or not is a matter of debate. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:40:29 PM 1290 Views
Well, it's only "unnecessary" if you don't want people to be turned off of your message immediately. *NM* Craig - 02/12/2009 09:42:46 PM 645 Views
Judging from the responses, most people weren't turned off immediately. Tom - 02/12/2009 09:59:35 PM 1273 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. Jacob - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1335 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1296 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic Jacob - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1325 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1271 Views
You're playing a game. Jacob - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1366 Views
I like your response. *NM* Aeryn - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 637 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1363 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. Jacob - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1385 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1250 Views
Bulgakov Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1367 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1327 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1238 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1311 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Camilla - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1340 Views
I suppose. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1331 Views
Re: I suppose. Camilla - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1347 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* Ouranid - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 656 Views
That is what I mean Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1278 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1396 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1319 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction Tom - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1428 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1395 Views
There's an interesting book in Russian that might be translated somewhere. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:02:48 PM 1399 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1363 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1325 Views
the illiad is a classic LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1343 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad Tom - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1318 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 710 Views
Maybe not. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 660 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree Beqi - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1325 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Tom - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1326 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1297 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 720 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1430 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1297 Views
Re: Hmmm Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1321 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1401 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. AgentOrange - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1352 Views
Heh Rebekah - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1349 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom AgentOrange - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1321 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom Camilla - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1365 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1301 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1465 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1408 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1433 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1288 Views
I agree with in principle random thoughts - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1257 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1448 Views
I have a few objections. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1366 Views
where else should we talk about it? LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1354 Views
There's a difference between having threads about it and focusing the official book club on it. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:40:53 AM 1416 Views
This is the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Board for site optimization purposes. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:07:39 AM 14336 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line Chas - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1391 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Tom - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1375 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Chas - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1427 Views
That's it Ouranid - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1474 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: Tom - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1346 Views
Certainly Ouranid - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1423 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 574 Views
According to whom? *NM* Camilla - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 701 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 689 Views
Yes, it is but actually... Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1343 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1280 Views
Really? Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1329 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* everynametaken - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 676 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 705 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* everynametaken - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 681 Views
another thing wrong with your argument imlad - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1376 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 1163 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) imlad - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1450 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: Tom - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1389 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1341 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough random thoughts - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1313 Views
is it just me, or is this now the largest post/thread yet on RAFO.com??? 168 replies so far! *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:03:25 PM 618 Views
Well, for once we're discussing books...and their value. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 06:54:01 PM 695 Views
Congratulations on the replies count Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1446 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1373 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1416 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1314 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1470 Views
YES. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1262 Views
NO Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1382 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. AgentOrange - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1353 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1386 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1346 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX AgentOrange - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1327 Views
This is not about the personal taste Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1372 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1294 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1418 Views
What, your penis? rebelaessedai - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1353 Views
Don't you know it! Tom - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1218 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. rebelaessedai - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1365 Views
Hate to break it to you... Craig - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1398 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... rebelaessedai - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1467 Views
Metaphor versus literalism Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1378 Views
Metaphor divorced from the reality runs risks, however. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:25:47 PM 1290 Views
Honestly, the moral can always be dismissed as inapplicable if you want to dismiss it. Legolas - 05/12/2009 12:16:39 AM 1299 Views
While that's true, it's much harder to just dismiss Mockingbird. Ghavrel - 05/12/2009 03:57:42 AM 1286 Views
Then why read fiction at all? It's all a diversion. Werthead - 05/12/2009 04:16:06 PM 1299 Views
I think people should read non-fiction, and The Nine Hundred Days is an excellent book. Tom - 05/12/2009 04:41:50 PM 1352 Views
aha. but. Camilla - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1523 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. Tom - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1463 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then Camilla - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1349 Views
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