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i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM
Yes, it's insanely easier to sell a crappy science fiction novel. Disturbingly so.

But that does not mean there's anything wrong with the genre itself.

I have found just as much meaning from speculative fiction as "classical" fiction.

There is classical fiction I have read that has been nothing more than boring and irrelevant (Brontes, you amuse me, but I'm looking at you).

In some ways, the detachment from reality inspires the reader to consider the themes and reality more in depth. When I was reading Kushiel's Legacy (which speculates a Europe without Christianity, as an abbreviated setting summary), it inspired me to do a lot of thinking about the chain of effect of Christianity in Europe, what caused the spread of Christianity and other such historical musings. But I really doubt there's many people out there who would put Kushiel's Legacy on par with Lord of the Rings or 1984.

I have a very dear friend of mine who's a very conservative Christian in many respects.It was amazing how her views of homosexuality became far more accepting when presented to her through the non-real setting of Valdemar through the character Vanyel. Just because a book is separate from reality does not mean it cannot affect the reader just as much, if not more.

How are the themes of The Illiad more meaningful because they're sold under a classical label? The genre is just a plot label. Quality is quality. Nemo does not become a less interesting character study because he lives in a submarine. Iago does not become less of a villain because he's in a play and not The Great Gatsby. Yes I know that's not really an example of speculative fiction, but it makes my point. The "frivolity" of the genre does not relate to the depth of subject material. And I really like Iago's character.

So yes, in regards to the point that reading only speculative fiction is a detriment, I completely agree with you. But just because idiots keep throwing rotten apples in their cider doesn't mean the recipe is bad. It just means you drink from another chef's punchbowl.

PS. Do they even serve cider from a punchbowl?

EDIT: adjusted crappy puncutation
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
This message last edited by LadyLorraine on 02/12/2009 at 04:58:44 PM
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In Support of Other Fiction Tom - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2395 Views
Rebekah - 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1445 Views
Re: Tom - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1451 Views
you shouldn't feel the need to defend a non SF/F suggestion, just don't imlad - 03/12/2009 03:34:28 PM 1437 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 752 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. jh - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 1380 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. Tom - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1460 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. The Name With No Man - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1510 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1428 Views
perhaps some university will do a study imlad - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1425 Views
I'd like to see it Tom - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1453 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1397 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... Tom - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1435 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. The Name With No Man - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 1387 Views
I'd like to see it. Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1471 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan Camilla - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1421 Views
I was thinking about that too Tom - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1412 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1484 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1352 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. Camilla - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1424 Views
It would. Destroying the Wheel would likely make him a Buddhist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:51:17 PM 1376 Views
I Totally Missed That. Joel - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1513 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1450 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1577 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? Camilla - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1463 Views
They're Thick Bookends. The Name With No Man - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1420 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. The Name With No Man - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1478 Views
Re: Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:28:30 AM 1411 Views
I like it. Ghavrel - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1416 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1560 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time AgentOrange - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1492 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1467 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? imlad - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1469 Views
PJF is dirty? rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 1338 Views
Nice post. Legolas - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1504 Views
Perhaps you're right. Tom - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1406 Views
In its entirety? No. Legolas - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1411 Views
I agree! Dragonsworn - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1694 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 1353 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... Larry - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1510 Views
Popcorn? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1445 Views
Yes Larry - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1490 Views
Lovecraft? Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1467 Views
Re-read what I said Larry - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1524 Views
aahh Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1401 Views
I'm glad I could drive you from your Carthusian retreat, Larry Tom - 02/12/2009 01:58:49 AM 1451 Views
It won't last for long - have too many things still to deal with in my life Larry - 02/12/2009 02:36:15 AM 1465 Views
That's too bad. I'll have to learn monasterial sign language to continue a dialogue. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:49:01 AM 1379 Views
Well, I understand two out of those three languages Larry - 02/12/2009 03:56:00 AM 1395 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... imlad - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 1271 Views
I concur Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1390 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). Tom - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1460 Views
Thank you Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1393 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 672 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1440 Views
hehehe Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 1315 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? Wibble - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1483 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction Camilla - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1479 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1408 Views
it didn't come across that way imlad - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1405 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, Ghavrel - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1411 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows imlad - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 1323 Views
We agree! Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1389 Views
WoT has decent characterization, though a little overwrought. Harrington... not so much. Ghavrel - 04/12/2009 04:26:43 AM 1591 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1468 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* imlad - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 628 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1488 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. Aeryn - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1437 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1397 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 1338 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. Werthead - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 1314 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man imlad - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1412 Views
Which brings us back to my point. Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1436 Views
I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:24:02 PM 1330 Views
Re: I would like to see the study and statistics that produced this answer. Camilla - 04/12/2009 10:42:33 PM 1362 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1444 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today imlad - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1447 Views
don't get me wrong imlad - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1426 Views
"Pertinent", not "Pertinant". If it weren't in all caps I'd have ignored it this time. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:36 AM 1440 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive Werthead - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1412 Views
No, they are not Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1389 Views
This line is a load of bull bme - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1513 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? nossy - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1349 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? Tom - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 1370 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1378 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 1349 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 733 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* nossy - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1538 Views
I was born in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1386 Views
I know. nossy - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 1380 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? Tom - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1380 Views
lmao Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1549 Views
*piledrivers you* nossy - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 1330 Views
...! Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1338 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1404 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 1333 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 1330 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 1365 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. Vodalus - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 1371 Views
Thank you! Tom - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 1252 Views
Shitstorm! Vodalus - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 1337 Views
Heh heh heh. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1371 Views
Read what you like to read. Craig - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1494 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 678 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! Craig - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1388 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1390 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. Craig - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1475 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1424 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1394 Views
Agreed. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 1318 Views
Re: Agreed. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 1326 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. Craig - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1472 Views
I really did get under your skin Tom - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 1312 Views
Craig - 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 1318 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. lord-of-shadow - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1380 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. Tom - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 1347 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. Craig - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1367 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. Tom - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 1277 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* Ghavrel - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 667 Views
LOL! rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 1340 Views
See, you just proved my point. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 1374 Views
Hm. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1976 Views
Re-read my exact point. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 1320 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1456 Views
There may have been an assumption about literature due to the reason for the post. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:37:47 PM 1403 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1489 Views
As I see it... Camilla - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1373 Views
Yep. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1519 Views
Re: Yep. Camilla - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1377 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. Tom - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 1303 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 1319 Views
I know. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1378 Views
Re: I know. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 1325 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. Lupine - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1518 Views
I wasn't looking to generate controversy Tom - 02/12/2009 02:19:13 PM 1501 Views
Well... then I'm going to have to agree with Craig a bit. Lupine - 02/12/2009 02:32:59 PM 1486 Views
Well, I was being somewhat denigrating. "Unnecessarily" or not is a matter of debate. Tom - 02/12/2009 02:40:29 PM 1324 Views
Well, it's only "unnecessary" if you don't want people to be turned off of your message immediately. *NM* Craig - 02/12/2009 09:42:46 PM 657 Views
Judging from the responses, most people weren't turned off immediately. Tom - 02/12/2009 09:59:35 PM 1306 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. Jacob - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1372 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 1335 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic Jacob - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 1355 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 1302 Views
You're playing a game. Jacob - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1403 Views
I like your response. *NM* Aeryn - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 651 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1405 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. Jacob - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1412 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 1276 Views
Bulgakov Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 1406 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 1357 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. Camilla - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 1268 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 1335 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. Camilla - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 1368 Views
I suppose. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1350 Views
Re: I suppose. Camilla - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1373 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* Ouranid - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 671 Views
That is what I mean Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 1313 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. Tom - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1429 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1349 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction Tom - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1457 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. Ouranid - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1415 Views
There's an interesting book in Russian that might be translated somewhere. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:02:48 PM 1432 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1385 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. Tom - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1360 Views
the illiad is a classic LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1369 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad Tom - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 1341 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* LadyLorraine - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 729 Views
Maybe not. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 672 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree Beqi - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 1354 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Tom - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 1360 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! Camilla - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 1330 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 734 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1453 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 1320 Views
Re: Hmmm Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1350 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. Rebekah - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1427 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. AgentOrange - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1387 Views
Heh Rebekah - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1374 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom AgentOrange - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 1354 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom Camilla - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1399 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 1336 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1513 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1438 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. Tom - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1469 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. Cockatiel of Doom - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 1320 Views
I agree with in principle random thoughts - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 1293 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1479 Views
I have a few objections. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1390 Views
where else should we talk about it? LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1385 Views
There's a difference between having threads about it and focusing the official book club on it. Dreaded Anomaly - 03/12/2009 12:40:53 AM 1439 Views
This is the Sci-Fi and Fantasy Board for site optimization purposes. Tom - 03/12/2009 01:07:39 AM 14357 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line Chas - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1427 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Tom - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1394 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy Chas - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1455 Views
That's it Ouranid - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1506 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: Tom - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1377 Views
Certainly Ouranid - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1452 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 587 Views
According to whom? *NM* Camilla - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 711 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 701 Views
Yes, it is but actually... Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1372 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 1309 Views
Really? Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 1348 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* everynametaken - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 688 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 717 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* everynametaken - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 693 Views
another thing wrong with your argument imlad - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1400 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. Tom - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 1190 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) imlad - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1478 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: Tom - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1410 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, Camilla - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1370 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough random thoughts - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 1348 Views
is it just me, or is this now the largest post/thread yet on RAFO.com??? 168 replies so far! *NM* imlad - 03/12/2009 05:03:25 PM 633 Views
Well, for once we're discussing books...and their value. *NM* Tom - 03/12/2009 06:54:01 PM 710 Views
Congratulations on the replies count Ellestra - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1477 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Tom - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1399 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1437 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 1346 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1506 Views
YES. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 1290 Views
NO Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1411 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. AgentOrange - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 1383 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1407 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. Ellestra - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 1370 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX AgentOrange - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 1354 Views
This is not about the personal taste Ellestra - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1413 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... rebelaessedai - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 1320 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. Tom - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1437 Views
What, your penis? rebelaessedai - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 1378 Views
Don't you know it! Tom - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 1242 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. rebelaessedai - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1394 Views
Hate to break it to you... Craig - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1423 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... rebelaessedai - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1493 Views
Metaphor versus literalism Werthead - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1412 Views
Metaphor divorced from the reality runs risks, however. Tom - 04/12/2009 10:25:47 PM 1316 Views
Honestly, the moral can always be dismissed as inapplicable if you want to dismiss it. Legolas - 05/12/2009 12:16:39 AM 1325 Views
While that's true, it's much harder to just dismiss Mockingbird. Ghavrel - 05/12/2009 03:57:42 AM 1313 Views
Then why read fiction at all? It's all a diversion. Werthead - 05/12/2009 04:16:06 PM 1324 Views
I think people should read non-fiction, and The Nine Hundred Days is an excellent book. Tom - 05/12/2009 04:41:50 PM 1376 Views
aha. but. Camilla - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1549 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. Tom - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1492 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then Camilla - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 1380 Views
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