Active Users:251 Time:11/05/2024 03:13:56 PM
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. Ouranid Send a noteboard - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM
It is a tangent, but it's one that I'm interested in. I was looking about how speculative fiction in the West (particularly during the Cold War) tended to choose villains with a "hivemind" mentality, where the ultimate fear is of the individual losing his individuality (or at a minimum, freedom to be individual). It's interesting that if one looks at this from a traditional Eastern (specifically, Buddhist) perspective, Western speculative fiction would be seen as an exaggerated response on the part of the ego. This assessment might be worth exploring because the "hivemind" villain remains popular even after the end of the Cold War (and presumably, the fear of communism that it represents is gone).


The original Dawn of the Dead use zombies as a metaphor for consumerism, and capitalisti society has often been likened to a disease, as in Agent Smith's soliloquy in the original Matrix movie. Guess it was never just about the external threat of communism, but also the internal one of grand conformity. Plus, hive minds, from Xenomorphs to Zerg, make for good campy cannon fodder.


Soviet speculative fiction seemed to break down into two categories: utopian and dystopian. The emphasis on building a socialist utopia was so strong in society that speculative fiction would ultimately show an end result that reflected the author's prejudices. Alexei Tolstoy's Aelita envisions taking the communist gospel to Mars and making the red planet politically red as well. It glorifies technological progress and the inevitability of the socialist triumph.

By contrast, Bulgakov's Heart of the Dog and The Fateful Eggs show technological progress going terribly wrong as the result of blind faith about the inevitable triumph of technology and socialism. Zamyatin's We goes even farther to show a world where there is no private life, an ultimately sterile and stagnant world. Both authors were far too direct in their criticisms, though, which led to censorship of their writings.

People who did get published, like Evgenii Shvarts (whose Dragon is a criticism of Stalin) or Kir Bulychev, best known for Guest from the Future, were much more subtle in their criticism. However, Bulychev is generally not considered "literature" because his criticism is minor enough that the work is no longer studied as a means of political dissent.

Shvarts is studied as a writer of political dissent, but only in academic circles. Most Russians know him for his story Obyknovennoe Chudo, which was made into a popular movie with memorable songs and dance numbers, which is closer to a fairy tale with a moral than outright political dissent and certainly not as subversive as other works of his.


This wealth of knowledge makes me even more etermined to learn a third language. Was cencorship the worst misfortune that befell them?

A striking example for me is William Blake, who exhalted the American and French revolutions, painted Satan as a romantic spirit of revolution and God as a repressed dictator (only, you know, not that exactly),and got away with it because people thought he was idiosyncratic (barking mad), alternately, because nobody read his works.

Also, Holberg's Niels Klim's Underground travels, said by many (Norwegians) to be the first science fiction novel, is a wealth of satire.
*MySmiley*
Indeed, I marry them in their unlawful bed, with an open heart I affirm the true right of any man and woman to their dark slobbering nights which are rare enough, and against which too many laws conspire.
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2013 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1093 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1057 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 534 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 988 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1064 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1126 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1068 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1025 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1080 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 1010 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1045 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 981 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1042 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1055 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1024 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1118 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 1005 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1039 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1096 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1084 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1168 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1077 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1033 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1124 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1045 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1195 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1133 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1129 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1085 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 963 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1134 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1012 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1052 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1255 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 949 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1146 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1069 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1121 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1115 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1183 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1038 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 913 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1020 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1083 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1035 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 498 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1108 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 994 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1136 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1067 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1041 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1061 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 1005 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 939 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1032 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1102 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 448 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1141 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1033 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1010 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 956 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 954 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1030 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1086 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1081 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1016 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1059 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1030 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1040 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1127 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1011 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 991 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1019 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 999 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 545 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1149 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1068 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 997 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1014 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1166 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 967 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 1009 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1023 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 971 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 984 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 996 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 972 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 909 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 964 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 1001 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1083 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 513 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1011 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1052 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1116 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1032 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1041 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 961 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 959 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1079 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 955 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 947 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1015 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 989 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 1005 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 921 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 490 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 962 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 998 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1596 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 972 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1115 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1114 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 1005 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1146 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1027 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 922 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 954 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1027 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 962 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1112 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1022 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 975 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 995 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 951 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1023 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 460 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1014 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1056 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 950 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 995 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 965 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 919 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 960 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 991 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1010 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1015 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 503 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 937 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1048 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1010 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1093 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1055 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1023 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 1002 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1022 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 990 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 530 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 494 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 975 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 982 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 970 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 524 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1101 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 988 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1015 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1069 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1022 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1025 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 996 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1012 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 978 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1107 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1091 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1078 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 958 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 954 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1073 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1036 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 1000 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1036 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1043 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1097 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1098 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1035 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1074 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 425 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 550 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 515 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1030 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 944 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 997 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 525 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 511 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 518 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 1003 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 828 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1127 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1062 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1067 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 985 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1121 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1068 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1034 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 984 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1139 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 949 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1030 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 987 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1045 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 993 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 930 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1039 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 954 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1082 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 965 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 858 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1016 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1059 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1126 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1033 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1165 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1101 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 998 Views

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