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Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM
Exciting? Boring? Deathly boring? Terrific? Vengeful?

What'd you think?


All of the above?

Honestly, it s one of the stranger books in that way. In the main it is an entertaining read splattered with tedious, drawn-out scenes of dubious importance or value. I enjoyed reading it again, though. I was occasionally annoyed by the melodrama, but only occasionally. In part this may be because I have read it about every five years or so since I was a kid (in various different versions and languages, some abridged, some not), and reading it is a bit of a nostalgia trip. In part it is because I can never remember what happens. Except that the good come to good and the bad don't.

Since this bit is headed "plot", however, there is something related that strikes me: If plot is a plan, it is central to the book, but more as a motif than a structure, and I find that interesting. The Count's ability to control events is what makes him and the story so fascinating. It is implausible, of course, but that is irrelevant. Part of the premise is that Dantés has, through his suffering and a congruence of more fortunate circumstances, has become a type of person who is that focused and meticulous, and that it is possible. Quibbling about that is a bit like turning on fantasy with the information that magic doesn't really exist.

What really interests me, though, is that how he became that person is one giant ellipsis. Yes, there is Faria, but that is severely undetailed, and even with that the Dantés who leaves Château d'If is nowhere near the later Count. I think it is the existence of these gaps that provides the richness of the novel, and much of its colour.

Regarding the story as it is presented to it, it is highly satisfying on a very visceral level. I disagree with Larry's Eco quote (without having read the whole any time recently) in that I'd say it is less like pornography than like strip tease (admittedly without having any first-hand experience of either). We are promised satisfaction, but the satisfaction would be worth nothing if it were delivered immediately. Of course, this is not limited to this novel or this plot -- it is a trait of most plot-driven narrative, I'd say. The whole point of it is to delay the end while keeping the desire for it alive.

I know I feel the nagging of the unresolved very strongly when reading it. I heartily dislike reading the beginning, though. The worst part of the book is the part before everything goes wrong. Probably because I know what is coming, and part of me strains to stop it. I have no idea why, but it is a very strong emotional reaction. I keep putting the book down. The betrayal really gets to me.

The scenes with Faria are among my favourites (his clear understanding of the circumstances which he has never had first-hand experience of prefigures the Count's uncanny ability to direct circumstances, which I like), but I find I am not moved by the escape at all.

The scene with Franz d'Espinay in the cave, on the contrary, is one of those that I don't forget (did I mention I keep forgetting what happens in this book?). It must have made a massive impression on me the first time I read it (in a shortened version when I was about 10 -- I remember being a bit confused because I did not make the connection between Dantés and the Count).

The same goes for the garden party. I always remember that, but I never remember what happens there or the importance of it as what establishes the Count as someone in control of the circumstances.

And for some reason I always expect Albert and Haidee to end up together. And by expect, I mean that I believe that that is what happened the last time I read it. I swear that is the set-up. The coupling is Valentine-Morrell, Dantés-Mercedes, Albert-Haidee. I think the most interesting part of the whole book is how that pairing is broken. I do not know why it happens, but it keeps surprising and fascinating me. And leaving my visceral reaction to the book oddly unsatisfied. I love it.




*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2788 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1558 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1718 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1662 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1664 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1602 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1637 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1586 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1806 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1621 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1752 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1673 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1706 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1835 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1707 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1546 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1607 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1658 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1633 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1612 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1667 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1710 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1554 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1724 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1705 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1666 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1693 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1719 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1653 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1776 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1637 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1829 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 856 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 839 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1783 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 881 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1696 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1691 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1753 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1627 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1627 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1699 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1616 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1708 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1699 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1598 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1672 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1626 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1633 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1723 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1763 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1633 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1629 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1547 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1601 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1631 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1748 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1590 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1567 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1410 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1587 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1522 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1593 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1639 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1676 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1600 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1643 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1584 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1638 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1598 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1665 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1800 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1665 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1666 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 845 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1688 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1672 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1652 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1547 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1596 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1665 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 825 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1715 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1780 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1526 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1697 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1719 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1613 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1687 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1650 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1693 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1748 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1677 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1765 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1604 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1630 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1611 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1768 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1597 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1616 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1608 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1578 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1852 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1636 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1708 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1654 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1605 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1629 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1634 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1538 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1778 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1605 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1673 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1744 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1767 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1729 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1702 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1610 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1698 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1535 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1608 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1617 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1606 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1569 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1604 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1464 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1660 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1707 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1616 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1567 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1510 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1758 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1640 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1604 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1670 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1532 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 915 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1694 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1644 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1588 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1746 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1678 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1729 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1718 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1594 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 849 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1629 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1640 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1725 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1590 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1692 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1631 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1771 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1563 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1620 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1556 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1835 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1599 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1736 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1719 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2295 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1566 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 2071 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 824 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1500 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1751 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1570 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1586 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1618 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1606 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1563 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1599 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1596 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1590 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1568 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1591 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 810 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 835 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1560 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1519 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1588 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1528 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1577 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1578 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1465 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 873 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1869 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1531 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1587 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1566 Views

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