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Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM
Exciting? Boring? Deathly boring? Terrific? Vengeful?

What'd you think?


All of the above?

Honestly, it s one of the stranger books in that way. In the main it is an entertaining read splattered with tedious, drawn-out scenes of dubious importance or value. I enjoyed reading it again, though. I was occasionally annoyed by the melodrama, but only occasionally. In part this may be because I have read it about every five years or so since I was a kid (in various different versions and languages, some abridged, some not), and reading it is a bit of a nostalgia trip. In part it is because I can never remember what happens. Except that the good come to good and the bad don't.

Since this bit is headed "plot", however, there is something related that strikes me: If plot is a plan, it is central to the book, but more as a motif than a structure, and I find that interesting. The Count's ability to control events is what makes him and the story so fascinating. It is implausible, of course, but that is irrelevant. Part of the premise is that Dantés has, through his suffering and a congruence of more fortunate circumstances, has become a type of person who is that focused and meticulous, and that it is possible. Quibbling about that is a bit like turning on fantasy with the information that magic doesn't really exist.

What really interests me, though, is that how he became that person is one giant ellipsis. Yes, there is Faria, but that is severely undetailed, and even with that the Dantés who leaves Château d'If is nowhere near the later Count. I think it is the existence of these gaps that provides the richness of the novel, and much of its colour.

Regarding the story as it is presented to it, it is highly satisfying on a very visceral level. I disagree with Larry's Eco quote (without having read the whole any time recently) in that I'd say it is less like pornography than like strip tease (admittedly without having any first-hand experience of either). We are promised satisfaction, but the satisfaction would be worth nothing if it were delivered immediately. Of course, this is not limited to this novel or this plot -- it is a trait of most plot-driven narrative, I'd say. The whole point of it is to delay the end while keeping the desire for it alive.

I know I feel the nagging of the unresolved very strongly when reading it. I heartily dislike reading the beginning, though. The worst part of the book is the part before everything goes wrong. Probably because I know what is coming, and part of me strains to stop it. I have no idea why, but it is a very strong emotional reaction. I keep putting the book down. The betrayal really gets to me.

The scenes with Faria are among my favourites (his clear understanding of the circumstances which he has never had first-hand experience of prefigures the Count's uncanny ability to direct circumstances, which I like), but I find I am not moved by the escape at all.

The scene with Franz d'Espinay in the cave, on the contrary, is one of those that I don't forget (did I mention I keep forgetting what happens in this book?). It must have made a massive impression on me the first time I read it (in a shortened version when I was about 10 -- I remember being a bit confused because I did not make the connection between Dantés and the Count).

The same goes for the garden party. I always remember that, but I never remember what happens there or the importance of it as what establishes the Count as someone in control of the circumstances.

And for some reason I always expect Albert and Haidee to end up together. And by expect, I mean that I believe that that is what happened the last time I read it. I swear that is the set-up. The coupling is Valentine-Morrell, Dantés-Mercedes, Albert-Haidee. I think the most interesting part of the whole book is how that pairing is broken. I do not know why it happens, but it keeps surprising and fascinating me. And leaving my visceral reaction to the book oddly unsatisfied. I love it.




*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2714 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1478 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1643 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1584 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1598 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1527 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1575 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1523 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1729 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1548 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1676 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1607 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1644 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1750 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1641 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1475 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1529 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1580 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1559 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1537 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1585 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1642 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1487 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1651 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1635 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1597 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1608 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1647 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1585 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1700 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1571 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1751 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 818 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 809 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1698 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 849 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1631 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1608 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1684 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1563 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1552 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1624 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1537 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1631 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1626 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1531 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1596 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1536 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1572 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1646 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1697 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1568 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1553 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1477 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1532 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1556 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1688 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1522 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1494 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1342 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1508 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1445 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1512 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1576 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1595 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1519 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1574 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1516 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1564 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1539 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1596 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1735 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1585 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1597 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 812 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1614 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1592 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1583 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1472 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1530 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1583 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 767 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1625 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1694 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1462 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1643 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1650 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1524 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1617 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1566 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1634 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1677 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1617 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1691 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1533 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1565 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1553 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1691 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1521 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1529 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1535 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1509 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1782 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1564 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1628 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1570 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1538 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1552 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1569 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1451 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1712 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1542 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1605 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1681 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1689 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1661 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1625 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1544 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1619 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1474 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1539 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1547 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1540 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1502 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1526 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1399 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1578 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1639 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1551 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1482 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1440 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1689 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1566 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1531 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1595 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1458 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 882 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1627 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1573 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1527 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1671 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1608 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1662 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1645 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1512 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 811 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1553 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1577 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1653 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1523 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1618 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1567 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1696 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1495 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1560 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1481 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1770 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1523 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1669 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1651 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2221 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1485 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1987 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 790 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1432 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1688 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1484 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1524 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1553 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1545 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1496 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1533 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1531 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1517 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1499 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1533 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 771 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 800 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1485 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1446 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1510 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1457 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1513 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1510 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1381 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 834 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1796 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1453 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1519 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1500 Views

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