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Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM
Does it deserve it?


I suspect this book is hitch hiking a little on the brilliance of the musketeers, while pretending to be (or being perceived as being, which is much the same) more serious by substituting the vengeance theme for the swashbuckling.

That said, and all the melodrama acknowledged as less than ideal, I think simply dismissing it as worthless vengeance pornography is too simple. As is writing it off as melodrama. Especially considering how rich the text is. By that I mean that how you approach it to a great extent determines how you read it: much as it panders to the crowds; it could also be seen as puncturing the melodrama by refusing to provide real closure. It also raises questions of character (what constitutes it, whether it is constant or malleable, gender identity, gender and society... I could go on) and of beginnings and endings and what lies between, not to mention the much more overt discussion of the legitimacy of vengeance.

Fun as iconoclasm is, and easy as this classic is to dismiss, I think this is too easy a target while deserving more respect than some here would give it.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
This message last edited by Camilla on 27/01/2010 at 01:18:24 AM
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2718 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1483 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1647 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1591 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1603 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1536 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1580 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1528 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1734 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1554 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1683 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1611 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1649 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1755 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1645 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1480 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1536 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1586 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1564 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1543 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1595 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1647 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1491 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1657 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1641 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1602 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1614 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1652 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1592 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1708 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1576 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1759 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 820 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 812 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1705 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 854 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1633 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1613 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1690 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1566 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1556 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1631 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1543 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1638 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1633 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1537 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1598 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1543 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1578 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1651 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1702 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1571 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1557 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1481 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1535 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1561 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1691 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1528 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1501 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1348 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1518 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1451 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1516 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1580 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1605 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1524 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1580 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1521 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1570 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1544 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1603 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1739 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1591 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1603 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 816 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1621 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1598 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1586 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1477 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1536 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1588 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 773 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1632 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1699 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1465 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1648 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1656 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1529 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1623 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1569 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1640 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1682 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1621 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1697 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1538 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1571 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1558 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1696 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1527 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1536 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1540 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1514 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1786 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1568 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1635 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1575 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1543 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1557 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1575 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1458 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1720 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1549 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1612 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1684 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1695 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1669 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1635 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1550 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1625 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1479 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1543 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1550 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1544 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1509 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1530 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1403 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1582 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1648 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1554 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1486 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1444 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1694 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1572 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1537 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1600 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1463 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 885 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1632 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1578 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1535 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1675 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1615 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1672 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1654 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1518 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 815 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1560 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1584 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1661 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1529 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1623 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1572 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1705 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1498 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1566 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1486 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1774 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1531 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1673 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1659 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2226 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1489 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1992 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 794 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1438 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1694 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1491 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1532 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1558 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1549 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1501 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1539 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1538 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1523 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1503 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1536 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 774 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 803 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1489 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1451 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1518 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1463 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1518 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1517 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1385 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 837 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1802 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1455 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1523 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1505 Views

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