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Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
Texts have inherent meaning. If you read The Count of Monte Cristo and think it's talking about how the Federal Reserve controls the world and affects the tides, you've just found "meaning through your interaction" with the book, but it's not because there is anything in the text to that effect. You're just likely a paranoid schizophrenic.

This post-modern take on the novel is a pile of steaming horseshit that, as I said, reduces the value of literature, literary criticism and learning to meaninglessness.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2790 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1561 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1721 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1664 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1668 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1604 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1639 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1588 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1808 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1622 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1753 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1677 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1708 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1838 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1709 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1550 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1609 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1662 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1635 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1613 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1671 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1712 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1557 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1727 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1707 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1668 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1696 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1721 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1654 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1779 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1638 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1831 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 856 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 839 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1786 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 881 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1697 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1695 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1757 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1629 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1631 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1701 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1620 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1710 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1701 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1601 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1674 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1628 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1635 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1726 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1765 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1635 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1631 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1551 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1605 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1633 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1750 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1592 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1569 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1414 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1591 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1525 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1593 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1641 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1678 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1601 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1645 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1585 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1640 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1601 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1667 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1804 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1669 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1669 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 845 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1692 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1676 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1654 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1551 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1598 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1668 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 825 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1719 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1782 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1527 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1699 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1722 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1615 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1688 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1654 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1698 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1750 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1681 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1767 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1607 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1631 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1615 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1772 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1601 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1618 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1612 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1580 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1856 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1638 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1710 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1657 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1608 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1630 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1635 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1540 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1782 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1607 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1674 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1746 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1771 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1730 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1704 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1613 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1700 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1536 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1609 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1619 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1608 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1572 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1608 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1466 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1663 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1710 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1617 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1571 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1514 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1760 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1642 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1607 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1673 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1535 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 915 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1696 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1646 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1590 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1748 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1679 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1732 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1720 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1595 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 849 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1633 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1644 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1727 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1593 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1694 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1633 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1774 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1567 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1620 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1560 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1839 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1603 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1740 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1723 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2297 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1569 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 2073 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 824 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1501 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1754 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1573 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1589 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1619 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1610 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1567 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1601 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1598 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1593 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1570 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1592 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 810 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 835 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1563 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1523 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1588 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1529 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1581 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1581 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1466 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 873 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1870 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1535 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1591 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1568 Views

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