Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
Tom Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
Calling The Name of the Rose a detective story is like calling Crime and Punishment a detective story. It may not be as far removed from "genre" fiction as Dostoevsky's novel, but it certainly isn't something you'd recommend to someone who asked, "I'm looking for a good detective story. I like detective stories."
Ultimately, that is the utility of genre designations. It helps people looking for the formulaic and derivative find what they're looking for. This is the reason I continue to insist that it shouldn't be applied to good books, at least most of the time.
Unscientific anecdotal evidence confirms me in this belief. Many people who like fantasy novels don't like Tolkien because he doesn't adhere to their idea of what fantasy should be. Many people who like science fiction can't stand Solaris for the same reason.
You liked my denunciation of critical studies, didn't you?
Ultimately, that is the utility of genre designations. It helps people looking for the formulaic and derivative find what they're looking for. This is the reason I continue to insist that it shouldn't be applied to good books, at least most of the time.
Unscientific anecdotal evidence confirms me in this belief. Many people who like fantasy novels don't like Tolkien because he doesn't adhere to their idea of what fantasy should be. Many people who like science fiction can't stand Solaris for the same reason.
You liked my denunciation of critical studies, didn't you?
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open!
- 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM
2835 Views
Les characters.
- 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM
1704 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal?
- 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM
1668 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography?
- 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM
1801 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM
1727 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM
1751 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying.
- 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM
1893 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM
1757 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried.
- 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM
1641 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text.
- 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM
1605 Views
There is no such thing
- 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM
1653 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel.
- 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM
1703 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM
1657 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol.
- 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM
1710 Views
I think one important question to ask is...
- 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM
1752 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version.
- 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM
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I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM
886 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time.
- 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM
1712 Views
I have read both
- 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM
1764 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM
1748 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM
1705 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter:
- 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM
1882 Views
The book was very childish.
- 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM
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Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM
903 Views
No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM
1742 Views
You know, this is a problem.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM
1740 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol?
- 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM
1713 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf.
- 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM
1618 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above.
- 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM
1804 Views
Re: No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM
1672 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. 
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1724 Views
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1724 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though
- 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM
1721 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom
- 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM
1762 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common.
- 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
1727 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays
- 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM
1674 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you?
- 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM
1683 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors
- 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM
1763 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
- 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
1807 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely
- 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM
1682 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction.
- 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM
1679 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels
- 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM
1595 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted.
- 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM
1644 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though
- 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM
1678 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element.
- 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM
1788 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader
- 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM
1640 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree.
- 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM
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Depends on how you view SF, I suppose
- 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM
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I thought that was what we were mulling over
- 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM
1637 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me.
- 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM
1689 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). 
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1750 Views
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1750 Views
approve of this message.
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
875 Views
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
875 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question
- 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM
1645 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book?
- 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM
1686 Views
I honestly can't remember.
- 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM
1634 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written.
- 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM
1689 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better.
- 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM
1651 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM
1707 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you?
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1701 Views
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1701 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me.
- 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM
1595 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM
1757 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog
- 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM
1825 Views
On what basis?
- 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM
1738 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed.
- 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM
1761 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent.
- 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM
1672 Views
Regarding comfort zones
- 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM
1751 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
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Re: Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM
1744 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed.
- 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM
1812 Views
Possibly
- 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM
1647 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM
1666 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM
1661 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM
1825 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down.
- 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM
1646 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
851 Views
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
851 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM
1662 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus.
- 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM
1652 Views
why is it a bonus?
- 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM
1620 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete.
- 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM
1899 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit.
- 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM
1629 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones
- 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
1747 Views
So. I really liked it.
- 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM
1854 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM
1654 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM
1719 Views
We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM
1796 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM
1813 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown.
- 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM
1771 Views
Feel free to.
- 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM
1754 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
1664 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM
1745 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach.
- 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM
1576 Views
My touchy-feely approach?
- 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM
1659 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis.
- 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM
1663 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion?
- 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM
1649 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM
1624 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM
1709 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM
1749 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM
1670 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours?
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1557 Views
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1557 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying.
- 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM
1586 Views
Do it. I'd read that.
- 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM
1803 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two.
- 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM
1722 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion.
- 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM
1678 Views
And ANOTHER THING
- 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM
1577 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM*
- 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM
937 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM
1738 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM
1693 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
1635 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions...
- 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM
1792 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM
1764 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do.
- 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM
1641 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not.
- 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
1677 Views
What discussion?
- 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM
1681 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms.
- 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM
1770 Views
Which I still think we can.
- 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM
1637 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM
1740 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM
1689 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM
1663 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM
1614 Views
Deary me.
- 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM
1882 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates?
- 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
1642 Views
Not at all.
- 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM
1777 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far.
- 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM
1704 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club"
- 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM
1548 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions?
- 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM
1798 Views
Yes, shorter would be good.
- 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM
1617 Views
Well, you should have known better!
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1644 Views
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1644 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
833 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
833 Views
Well I'm late to the party
- 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM
1622 Views
No, you're early
- 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM
1542 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM
903 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book
- 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM
1763 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
835 Views
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
835 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience?
- 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM
1635 Views