I hate that misconception. No literary theory worth its salt argues that "you can't say someone's opinion is wrong". All they say is that you can get different interpretations from the same piece of texts. Confusing the two is like saying all fourlegged creatures are cats. It bugs me no end.
I don't think anyone here disagrees that you can get different interpretations of a text. However, I do disagree with the idea that all interpretations, even when you limit it to those that are not "wrong" in the sense of contradicting elements of the text, are equally valid and equally relevant. Surely the primary interpretation, the one receiving most attention, has to be the one the author intended - provided of course that that can be determined, and acknowledging that there may be disagreement on what it was the author intended.
Boutade? I looked it up in the oed, and it says it means a sally or sudden outburst. I am not sure I understand.
See my reply to Tom on "boutade" as used in Dutch (and, one would presume, French).
The problem with authorial intention is (in the main) twofold:
-we have no access to it.
-it cannot fix meaning.
The first is basically down to psychoanalysis, I suppose. Even disregarding that the author might make up his intention after the fact (lie or deceive himself), the whole theory of the subconscious can be summed up in the knowledge that we do not have conscious control over all aspects of our actions.
So because authorial intent cannot be known 100% exactly, you immediately ditch the 90% or more that in many cases (admittedly not all) *can* be known. That is the problem I and many other people have with this.
The second is down to the nature of language as shared. Because it is communal and the meaning in it is not fixed, but subject to continuous change and individual interpretation: this means that not only is the idea of a pure thought transmitted directly through language to be decoded by the listener/reader an inherent impossibility (since language is not mathematical with fixed rules for encoding or decoding), the author is even formulating his text in borrowed language -- something that he does not control.
And same here. It's silly to throw authorial intent overboard entirely just because it cannot be conveyed with 100% accuracy. There are very few things in this world that do attain that 100% accuracy. Obviously in some cases the authorial intent is *truly* unclear, and various intent-based readings are possible. But that's no reason to reject it for all cases.
Neither of these are really difficult concepts, but because the trend in our society tends towards oversimplification, it becomes a caricature of itself.
I might as well say that the trend in academia trends towards nitpicking to the point of rejecting a common-sense concept like authorial intent entirely just because it's imperfect.
The point is that you cannot use what you think is authorial intent (based on the consensus of the masses) to dismiss other interpretations that cohere with the text. You cannot use it to fix meaning. I really do not see how that is nitpicking. I am fairly sure it would make me horrified if I were a brilliant author who constructed a text in which I made the main trend point in a completely different way to what I was trying to say, if 90 % of people got it wrong and used that to claim that they had it right. At its heart, the dismissal of the authority of the authorial intention is a respect for the author in the author's text.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open!
- 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM
2788 Views
Les characters.
- 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM
1661 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal?
- 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM
1621 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography?
- 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM
1751 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM
1673 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM
1706 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying.
- 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM
1835 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM
1707 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried.
- 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM
1603 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text.
- 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM
1546 Views
There is no such thing
- 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM
1607 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel.
- 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM
1658 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM
1612 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol.
- 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM
1667 Views
I think one important question to ask is...
- 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM
1705 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version.
- 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM
1518 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM
860 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time.
- 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM
1666 Views
I have read both
- 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM
1718 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM
1701 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM
1652 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter:
- 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM
1829 Views
The book was very childish.
- 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM
1783 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM
881 Views
No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM
1695 Views
You know, this is a problem.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM
1691 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol?
- 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM
1666 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf.
- 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM
1562 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above.
- 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM
1753 Views
Re: No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM
1627 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging.
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1677 Views
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1677 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though
- 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM
1669 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom
- 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM
1708 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common.
- 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
1672 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays
- 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM
1625 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you?
- 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM
1632 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors
- 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM
1723 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
- 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
1763 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely
- 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM
1633 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction.
- 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM
1629 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels
- 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM
1547 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted.
- 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM
1601 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though
- 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM
1631 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element.
- 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM
1748 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader
- 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM
1590 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree.
- 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM
1567 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose
- 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM
1410 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over
- 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM
1587 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me.
- 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM
1638 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point).
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1706 Views
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1706 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good!
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
848 Views
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
848 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question
- 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM
1599 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book?
- 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM
1643 Views
I honestly can't remember.
- 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM
1583 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written.
- 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM
1638 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better.
- 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM
1598 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM
1665 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you?
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1652 Views
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1652 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me.
- 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM
1547 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM
1715 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog
- 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM
1780 Views
On what basis?
- 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM
1697 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed.
- 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM
1719 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent.
- 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM
1613 Views
Regarding comfort zones
- 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM
1693 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
1748 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM
1677 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed.
- 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM
1764 Views
Possibly
- 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM
1604 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM
1630 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM
1611 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM
1768 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down.
- 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM
1597 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it.
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
821 Views
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
821 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM
1616 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus.
- 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM
1608 Views
why is it a bonus?
- 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM
1578 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete.
- 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM
1852 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit.
- 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM
1579 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones
- 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
1708 Views
So. I really liked it.
- 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM
1778 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM
1605 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM
1673 Views
We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM
1744 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM
1767 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown.
- 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM
1728 Views
Feel free to.
- 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM
1702 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
1610 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM
1698 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach.
- 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM
1535 Views
My touchy-feely approach?
- 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM
1608 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis.
- 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM
1617 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion?
- 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM
1606 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM
1569 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM
1660 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM
1707 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM
1616 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours?
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1510 Views
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1510 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying.
- 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM
1538 Views
Do it. I'd read that.
- 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM
1758 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two.
- 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM
1670 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion.
- 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM
1627 Views
And ANOTHER THING
- 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM
1532 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM*
- 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM
915 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM
1694 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM
1644 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
1588 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions...
- 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM
1746 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM
1718 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do.
- 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM
1593 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not.
- 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
1629 Views
What discussion?
- 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM
1640 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms.
- 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM
1725 Views
Which I still think we can.
- 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM
1590 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM
1692 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM
1631 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM
1619 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM
1556 Views
Deary me.
- 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM
1835 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates?
- 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
1599 Views
Not at all.
- 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM
1736 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far.
- 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM
1665 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club"
- 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM
1499 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions?
- 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM
1751 Views
Yes, shorter would be good.
- 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM
1570 Views
Well, you should have known better!
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1596 Views
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1596 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
810 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
810 Views
Well I'm late to the party
- 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM
1578 Views
No, you're early
- 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM
1465 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM
873 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book
- 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM
1718 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting.
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
811 Views
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
811 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience?
- 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM
1587 Views


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