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Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon Send a noteboard - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM
I can sum up my thoughts with a few short sentences:

The writing style was blunt and inelegant. The plot was completely absurd. The characters were all two-dimensional, if that. I suspect that if I were 10 to 12 years old, I would have found it a fun story.


You have obviously read one of the horrible translations from the original French. As far as I know, only a really old translation comes close to the elegance and depth of the original. There is an old English translation available, check the old out-of-print specialty shops, or read the superb old Japanese translation (you can read difficult Japanese I assume).
I have read (attempted, quit soon as they definitely not worth continuing) a couple of modern versions, and they are everything you describe, absolutely worthless and disappointing. However, that is not the real story.
Search on.
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2789 Views
Le plot. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1560 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1719 Views
Les characters. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1663 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1665 Views
Hmm. snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1603 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1638 Views
Re: Hmm. snoopcester - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1587 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1807 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1622 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? Larry - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1753 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1674 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1707 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1836 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1708 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM 1605 Views
He would still have to swim, being on an island Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:37:26 PM 1785 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1548 Views
There is no such thing Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1609 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1659 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1635 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1613 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1668 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant snoopcester - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1711 Views
I'm never petulant Tom - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1555 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1725 Views
I think one important question to ask is... Legolas - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1706 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM 1520 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM* Tom - 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM 860 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. Tashmere - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1667 Views
the potentially removable part... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1695 Views
I have read both Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1720 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Legolas - 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM 1702 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM 1653 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged Ryan - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1654 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1777 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1637 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: Danae al'Thor - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1830 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* The Shrike - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 856 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 839 Views
The book was very childish. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1784 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 881 Views
No, it really isn't. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1697 Views
You know, this is a problem. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1692 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol? Tom - 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM 1667 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM 1563 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1754 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien Tom - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1629 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1628 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. Tom - 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM 1678 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM 1671 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... Legolas - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1700 Views
Read His Master's Voice Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1617 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom Larry - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1709 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. Ghavrel - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1701 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... Larry - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1600 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1673 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays Larry - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1627 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? Tom - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1634 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors Larry - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1724 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1764 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely Larry - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1634 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. Tom - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1630 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels Larry - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1549 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. Tom - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1602 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though Larry - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1632 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. Tom - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1749 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader Larry - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1591 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. Tom - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1568 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose Larry - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1411 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over Tom - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1588 Views
True Larry - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1524 Views
Nice tie-in! Tom - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1593 Views
Larry - 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1640 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me. Legolas - 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM 1639 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). Tom - 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1708 Views
The approve of this message. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1678 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM* everynametaken - 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM 848 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question nossy - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1601 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? Tom - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1645 Views
I honestly can't remember. nossy - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1585 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1639 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1599 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1666 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". Legolas - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1801 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. nossy - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1666 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1667 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 845 Views
In your opinion nossy - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1690 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1673 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? Larry - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1653 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1548 Views
Ha! Larry - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1597 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1666 Views
Indeed. *NM* Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 825 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1717 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog Tom - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1781 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1527 Views
On what basis? nossy - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1698 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1721 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1614 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1688 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1652 Views
Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1694 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1749 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... Camilla - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1678 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1766 Views
Possibly Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1605 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1631 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1613 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1769 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1599 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM* Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM 821 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1617 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1609 Views
why is it a bonus? Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1579 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1854 Views
I did Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1637 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM 1581 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1709 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1655 Views
Halfway nossy - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1606 Views
Re: Halfway Camilla - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1630 Views
Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1635 Views
I read it in French Larry - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1539 Views
So. I really liked it. Nebhead - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1779 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1607 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1674 Views
We were talking about this last night. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1745 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1769 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1730 Views
Feel free to. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1703 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1612 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1700 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1536 Views
My touchy-feely approach? Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1609 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1618 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1607 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1571 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1605 Views
Glad to hear it. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1466 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1661 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1709 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1617 Views
Well, so what will it be? Tom - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1569 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1512 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM 1539 Views
Do it. I'd read that. nossy - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1759 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1641 Views
Right then. nossy - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1605 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1671 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion. Tom - 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM 1628 Views
And ANOTHER THING Tom - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1534 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 915 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1695 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1645 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1589 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1747 Views
It was mildly interesting. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1678 Views
I think you're misreading that... Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1731 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1719 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1595 Views
fine. *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 849 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1630 Views
What discussion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1641 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1726 Views
Which I still think we can. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1592 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1694 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1632 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1773 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1565 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1620 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1558 Views
Deary me. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1836 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? Tom - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1600 Views
Not at all. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1737 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1721 Views
Thank you. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2296 Views
Please ban me, then. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1567 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far. nossy - 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM 1667 Views
Nods Roland00 - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 2072 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 824 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" Jacob - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1501 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1753 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1572 Views
Oh i'm not complaining Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1587 Views
Sure sounded like it. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1619 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. Darth_Katie - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1607 Views
Absolutely. Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1564 Views
Agreed snoopcester - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1601 Views
Well, you should have known better! Larry - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1598 Views
I do. Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1591 Views
Thought you did Larry - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1570 Views
Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1592 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 810 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 835 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen Tom - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1560 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. Tashmere - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1520 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. Ghavrel - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1588 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" nossy - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1529 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club AgentOrange - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1579 Views
Well I'm late to the party John - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1580 Views
No, you're early Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1466 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* Tom - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 873 Views
A few comments John - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1869 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. Tom - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1531 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book Larry - 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM 1720 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM* Legolas - 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM 811 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1588 Views
Sure. Jacob - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1567 Views
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