Active Users:413 Time:18/06/2025 12:18:00 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? Joel Send a noteboard - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
I'll save you most of the jargon, but in short, the section of our constitution that forbade practicing homosexuals from being Ordained to Ministry of Word and Sacrament has been lifted. It doesn't force churches to ordain homosexuals, but it allows them to do so.

This is one of those things that I was never quite sure would happen in my lifetime. I am extremely proud of my denomination right now. It won't be easy, and a lot of folks are likely to leave. But better folks leaving by choice then being forced out by polity, in my opinion.

I'm not convinced either way on whether practicing homosexuals are consistent with Christian doctrine, but because of that I wouldn't make it a dealbreaker for the congregation. Church leadership is another matter, because that's pretty much giving them a seal of approval, which I'm not sure is valid or wise. I fully respect and support everyones civil rights and want to be very clear on that, but membership in the Church is conditional however anyone feels about that, and leadership in it certainly is if only because of the responsibility involved. I fully respect and support the right of Muslims to practice Islam, too, but I wouldn't ordain one as a Christian minister just to put butts in the pews, because it defeats the point of putting butts in the pews.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. Dannymac - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1429 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 318 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 365 Views
Homosexuals must die! Dark Knight - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1095 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! LadyLorraine - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 739 Views
Yay!!. Amys - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 990 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* Legolas - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 414 Views
Well done. *NM* Camilla - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 362 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? Joel - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 970 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 912 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? Tom - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 857 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 802 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned Tom - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 811 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 768 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 839 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1010 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. Tom - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 820 Views
Wow. Joel - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 841 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). Joel - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 896 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. Tom - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 780 Views
Agreed. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 853 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible. Joel - 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM 927 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all? Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM 798 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM 902 Views
They did so, via negativa. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 950 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here. Joel - 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM 756 Views
Your church has a constitution?! Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 818 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 401 Views
Haha no way! *NM* Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 354 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM 397 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 910 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 745 Views
It is pretty common practice random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 781 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 835 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. Tom - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1005 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 837 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. Tom - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 963 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 882 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 850 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives. Legolas - 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM 926 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes. Tom - 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM 900 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much. Legolas - 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM 898 Views
I strongly and vehemently disagree with your position. Tom - 13/05/2011 10:21:10 PM 767 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 855 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Jacob - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 827 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. Tom - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 750 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... Legolas - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 957 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that Tom - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 884 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong Tom - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 971 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying. Jacob - 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM 816 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* Dan - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 387 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 905 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 813 Views
Read Judges. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 814 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you. TaskmasterJack - 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM 747 Views
And you add in some New Age music and a little ankh as well *NM* Tom - 14/05/2011 02:35:27 AM 366 Views
Another example... Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 750 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 805 Views
I rest my case *NM* Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 351 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 803 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. Tom - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 749 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 788 Views
We both know that isn't the case Tom - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 892 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 766 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... Jacob - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 869 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology Tom - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 865 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 854 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible Tom - 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM 726 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then? beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM 803 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM 766 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does? Joel - 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM 1077 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint. Tom - 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM 816 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM 832 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM 778 Views
Oh, but they know that; in many cases, they exult in it. Joel - 14/05/2011 06:06:01 AM 781 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels Isaac - 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM 801 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least). Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM 941 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest beetnemesis - 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM 812 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM 337 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity Tom - 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM 766 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM 726 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Isaac - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 768 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Dannymac - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1170 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes