Active Users:1407 Time:31/07/2026 05:22:47 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? Joel Send a noteboard - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
I'll save you most of the jargon, but in short, the section of our constitution that forbade practicing homosexuals from being Ordained to Ministry of Word and Sacrament has been lifted. It doesn't force churches to ordain homosexuals, but it allows them to do so.

This is one of those things that I was never quite sure would happen in my lifetime. I am extremely proud of my denomination right now. It won't be easy, and a lot of folks are likely to leave. But better folks leaving by choice then being forced out by polity, in my opinion.

I'm not convinced either way on whether practicing homosexuals are consistent with Christian doctrine, but because of that I wouldn't make it a dealbreaker for the congregation. Church leadership is another matter, because that's pretty much giving them a seal of approval, which I'm not sure is valid or wise. I fully respect and support everyones civil rights and want to be very clear on that, but membership in the Church is conditional however anyone feels about that, and leadership in it certainly is if only because of the responsibility involved. I fully respect and support the right of Muslims to practice Islam, too, but I wouldn't ordain one as a Christian minister just to put butts in the pews, because it defeats the point of putting butts in the pews.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. Dannymac - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1566 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 395 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 422 Views
Homosexuals must die! Dark Knight - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1224 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! LadyLorraine - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 882 Views
Yay!!. Amys - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 1159 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* Legolas - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 474 Views
Well done. *NM* Camilla - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 425 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? Joel - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 1137 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 1109 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? Tom - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 973 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 920 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned Tom - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 955 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 899 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 980 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1141 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. Tom - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 968 Views
Wow. Joel - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 997 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). Joel - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 1026 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. Tom - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 911 Views
Agreed. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 992 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible. Joel - 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM 1074 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all? Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM 931 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM 1033 Views
They did so, via negativa. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 1114 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here. Joel - 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM 914 Views
Your church has a constitution?! Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 967 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 464 Views
Haha no way! *NM* Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 423 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM 461 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 1078 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 916 Views
It is pretty common practice random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 958 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 1009 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. Tom - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1144 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 965 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. Tom - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 1098 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 1013 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 980 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives. Legolas - 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM 1069 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes. Tom - 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM 1042 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much. Legolas - 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM 1060 Views
I strongly and vehemently disagree with your position. Tom - 13/05/2011 10:21:10 PM 904 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 996 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Jacob - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 965 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. Tom - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 898 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... Legolas - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 1092 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that Tom - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 1033 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong Tom - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 1115 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying. Jacob - 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM 959 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* Dan - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 453 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 1099 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 956 Views
Read Judges. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 962 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you. TaskmasterJack - 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM 877 Views
And you add in some New Age music and a little ankh as well *NM* Tom - 14/05/2011 02:35:27 AM 454 Views
Another example... Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 877 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 951 Views
I rest my case *NM* Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 417 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 937 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. Tom - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 882 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 935 Views
We both know that isn't the case Tom - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 1043 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 896 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... Jacob - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 1018 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology Tom - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 999 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 995 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible Tom - 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM 900 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then? beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM 972 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM 896 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does? Joel - 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM 1220 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint. Tom - 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM 956 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM 968 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM 908 Views
Oh, but they know that; in many cases, they exult in it. Joel - 14/05/2011 06:06:01 AM 908 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels Isaac - 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM 950 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least). Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM 1083 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest beetnemesis - 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM 984 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM 396 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity Tom - 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM 915 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM 859 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Isaac - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 911 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Dannymac - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1322 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes