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There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives. Legolas Send a noteboard - 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
I personally have nothing against a Church that says, "We're going to accept homosexual priests because we view the Bible as a flawed work written by humans and influenced by prejudices and bigotry, and we choose not to follow the injunctions of Leviticus with respect to homosexuality, and to ignore Paul's indignation in Romans and Jude's indignation in his book." That would be honest.

Instead, I see hypocrisy.

And this is certainly one of those. There are hundreds of millions of Christians, Muslims and believers of other religions in the world who absolutely refuse to consider that their holy texts might be at all flawed - but some of them are nevertheless willing to show tolerance for gay people, or for other groups of people who are somehow condemned in their holy texts. That's inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst, yes, but so what? Surely it'd be better for the world if we had more of those people and fewer of the consistent, non-hypocritical ones who follow their holy texts on everything.
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. Dannymac - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1474 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 342 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 380 Views
Homosexuals must die! Dark Knight - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1137 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! LadyLorraine - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 786 Views
Yay!!. Amys - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 1048 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* Legolas - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 430 Views
Well done. *NM* Camilla - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 379 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? Joel - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 1049 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 955 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? Tom - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 895 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 835 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned Tom - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 861 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 806 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 881 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. Ghavrel - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1046 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. Tom - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 872 Views
Wow. Joel - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 892 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). Joel - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 933 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. Tom - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 821 Views
Agreed. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 895 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible. Joel - 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM 986 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all? Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM 836 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM 940 Views
They did so, via negativa. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 988 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here. Joel - 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM 805 Views
Your church has a constitution?! Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 871 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 419 Views
Haha no way! *NM* Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 379 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM 413 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 969 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 799 Views
It is pretty common practice random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 838 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. Dragonsoul - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 892 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. Tom - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1047 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 877 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. Tom - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 1005 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 920 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 890 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives. Legolas - 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM 964 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes. Tom - 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM 938 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much. Legolas - 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM 966 Views
I strongly and vehemently disagree with your position. Tom - 13/05/2011 10:21:10 PM 812 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 901 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? Jacob - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 881 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. Tom - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 796 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... Legolas - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 998 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that Tom - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 928 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong Tom - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 1020 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying. Jacob - 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM 865 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* Dan - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 403 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. Joel - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 1005 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape random thoughts - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 859 Views
Read Judges. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 868 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you. TaskmasterJack - 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM 785 Views
And you add in some New Age music and a little ankh as well *NM* Tom - 14/05/2011 02:35:27 AM 388 Views
Another example... Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 791 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 853 Views
I rest my case *NM* Bramhodoulos - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 371 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 840 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. Tom - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 787 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. Dannymac - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 839 Views
We both know that isn't the case Tom - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 932 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. Dannymac - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 805 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... Jacob - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 924 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology Tom - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 905 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 907 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible Tom - 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM 779 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then? beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM 860 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture. Tom - 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM 808 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does? Joel - 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM 1119 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint. Tom - 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM 866 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM 874 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them. Tom - 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM 822 Views
Oh, but they know that; in many cases, they exult in it. Joel - 14/05/2011 06:06:01 AM 819 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels Isaac - 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM 839 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least). Ghavrel - 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM 992 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest beetnemesis - 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM 877 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM 354 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity Tom - 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM 816 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius. Joel - 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM 765 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Isaac - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 815 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... Dannymac - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1222 Views
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