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You just did not go Star Trek on me Dark Knight Send a noteboard - 20/09/2011 04:44:28 PM
The way the buildings fell, for instance. Or the fact that jet fuel isn't capable of burning hot enough to have caused the collapse. Stuff like that. Was 9/11 orchestrated? I really don't know. But it's at least worth discussing.

How much does a plane that big weigh? We're talking with all the people on board, luggage/freight, and fuel. I'm guessing quite a bit. Now slam that weight going, what 100mpg or so (I'm honestly not sure), into the side of a building. All of a sudden, the support structure of the building has to account for the massive amount of extra weight that it wasn't designed to support.

And then on top of that, all of the momentum of the plane that had to be absorbed by the building itself was a further compication. Remember when the Federal Building in OK was attacked. Remember how there was a huge hole in the entire side of the building and one could see into the halls/rooms through the wreckage. That was a conventionally built buidling, with support beams throughout the outer walls and within the structure itself. The WTC Towers were not built like that. Instead the lattice work outer shell of the building was the main support structure. If that was damaged.....

So you have a huge mass with some significant momentum slamming into the side of a lattice supported building. At the point of impact, that side's latticework is...well...gone. Meaning the weight of the floors above is now unevenly distributed. Now incorporate the inertia that was absorbed by the lattice. If memory serves me correctly, both planes hit a side directly (right?)...not a corner head on? That means that the lattice on the opposite side of impact took the brunt of the force. Somewhere along the opposite side outer latice, stress caused a break. Add in the extra weight of the planes, and it was just a matter of time.

You will note that I'm not addressing if anyone worked for anyone, or it was an inside job...or anything along those lines. That is not my point. My point is that with science, physics, and, well...logic....one can avoid any issues such as you mentioned. To Star Trek this up, there's an episode of Voyager (called Conspiracy if I remember correctly) where 7 of 9 freaks out. She starts making conjectures such as you mentioned, and ends up seeing something that isn't really there.

~Jeordam


This all makes sense. And that's the problem for me. I've seen the official explanation and I get it. Odd coincidences but I get it. But I've also seen a very well put together video of how the planes weren't sufficient to take the towers down like that. It kind of scared the hell out of me because it also made sense. They weren't rewriting the rules of physics or anything. Everything they explained made logical sense. I wish I could find that video...
Formerly Mat Bloody Cauthon on Wotmania, blessed be its name
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We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools. Tom - 20/09/2011 06:50:36 AM 1285 Views
Logic classes would be good in schools. Timthetrolloc - 20/09/2011 10:23:56 AM 833 Views
Ugh. Ghavrel - 20/09/2011 11:30:59 AM 864 Views
Re: Ugh. Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:03:31 AM 788 Views
Something tells me that no matter who answered your questions you wouldn't believe anyway. everynametaken - 21/09/2011 02:16:52 AM 792 Views
this is a controlled demolition Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:20:09 AM 903 Views
That is an incredibly stupid argument. Tom - 21/09/2011 01:12:38 AM 821 Views
I've seen controlled demolitions in person. They happen in the opposite order of the WTC collapses. Ghavrel - 21/09/2011 03:54:35 AM 836 Views
Asking questions is never wrong. ironclad - 20/09/2011 12:22:22 PM 742 Views
Re: Asking questions is never wrong. Timthetrolloc - 20/09/2011 11:57:04 PM 904 Views
Agreed Camilla - 20/09/2011 01:09:40 PM 780 Views
I've long advocated this for the reasons Tom states as well as others. Joel - 21/09/2011 06:49:28 AM 740 Views
I don't know if the Internet is degrading skills, or just giving stupid people a voice beetnemesis - 20/09/2011 02:33:24 PM 842 Views
There is compelling evidence that 9/11 was not what it seemed Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 03:06:58 PM 830 Views
No, there is not. Tom - 20/09/2011 03:19:43 PM 936 Views
Well, the circumstances were odd at least Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 03:26:40 PM 816 Views
As far as conspiracies go ... Nate - 20/09/2011 03:36:35 PM 886 Views
what would be the motive for the US doing something that stupid? random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:40:31 PM 733 Views
I'm not sure you got my gist. Nate - 20/09/2011 04:46:28 PM 745 Views
I don't think there is any evidience that Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9-11 random thoughts - 20/09/2011 05:21:09 PM 795 Views
Um. Well, sure, that would be true. If you ignored all the evidence. Nate - 20/09/2011 05:45:23 PM 855 Views
Well if you had argued that some Bush advisers wanted to attack Iraq I would have agreed random thoughts - 20/09/2011 06:35:07 PM 842 Views
But that's what I DID argue. Nate - 20/09/2011 06:47:17 PM 818 Views
sorry but you need to be more precise in your terms random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:37:36 PM 823 Views
I've always seen them as separate. Nate - 21/09/2011 03:33:14 PM 682 Views
and that is why I decided to drop it random thoughts - 21/09/2011 04:07:02 PM 829 Views
Heh. Nate - 21/09/2011 04:15:34 PM 787 Views
And the explicit statement of a Bush Cabinet member. Joel - 21/09/2011 06:59:47 AM 893 Views
I'm still annoyed. Nate - 21/09/2011 01:58:38 PM 725 Views
I stopped responfding when suddenly realized I didn't want to be in a Bush Iraq war debate random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:53:29 PM 723 Views
Admitting error is a sign of weakness; Don Draper said so. Joel - 21/09/2011 05:37:31 PM 756 Views
and I pointed that it was was just continuin gthe Clinton policy random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:30:13 PM 788 Views
Even if that were true, it would still be flip flopping on a central Bush platform plank. Joel - 21/09/2011 05:45:10 PM 833 Views
In addition: Nate - 20/09/2011 05:57:33 PM 859 Views
sorry but that is nothing more than a simple statement of fact random thoughts - 20/09/2011 06:40:51 PM 867 Views
This is very frustrating. Nate - 20/09/2011 07:05:48 PM 815 Views
For the war on terror? Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 04:49:12 PM 848 Views
And what was the war on terror supposed to accomplish? random thoughts - 20/09/2011 05:12:11 PM 799 Views
That contradicts the evidence. Tom - 20/09/2011 06:15:48 PM 826 Views
Excuse me? Macharius - 20/09/2011 08:22:21 PM 858 Views
Huh? Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 08:57:14 PM 845 Views
the problem with any other theory is the make no sense random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:36:02 PM 793 Views
Contemplate this.... Jeordam - 20/09/2011 04:27:52 PM 814 Views
You just did not go Star Trek on me Dark Knight - 20/09/2011 04:44:28 PM 806 Views
And how did you know... Jeordam - 20/09/2011 05:17:10 PM 907 Views
Re: And how did you know... Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:16:26 AM 897 Views
You should watch the pilot episode of the X-Files spin-off series The Lone Gunmen. TaskmasterJack - 20/09/2011 08:19:15 PM 839 Views
humans tend to be very bad at critical thinking random thoughts - 20/09/2011 04:58:43 PM 746 Views
Won't help Praziquantel - 20/09/2011 08:15:36 PM 822 Views
Make 'em all take debate. nossy - 20/09/2011 08:23:37 PM 790 Views
Would madam like a cane? Elaine - 20/09/2011 09:19:53 PM 906 Views
Maybe a walker with tennis balls on the bottom. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/09/2011 10:33:39 PM 377 Views
Do you think it would help? aerocontrols - 21/09/2011 12:09:42 AM 757 Views
Re: We really need to have Logic as a course in high schools. Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 12:10:08 AM 798 Views
Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...? Tom - 21/09/2011 01:05:18 AM 780 Views
Not actually the best example Isaac - 21/09/2011 01:56:03 AM 772 Views
what about the hole it cut into the frame of the building? random thoughts - 21/09/2011 03:23:07 AM 819 Views
Wouldn't make much difference Isaac - 21/09/2011 04:08:27 AM 794 Views
OK thanks *NM* random thoughts - 21/09/2011 02:55:52 PM 417 Views
The fireproofing was scraped off the steel by the crash, so the beams melted. Aeryn - 21/09/2011 07:35:08 PM 999 Views
Re: Yeah, and the 100,000 pounds of sudden extra weight slammed into the towers at 400 mph...? Timthetrolloc - 21/09/2011 03:02:19 AM 840 Views
But how else would they fall down? Aeryn - 21/09/2011 07:42:27 PM 693 Views
You would force Euler on to the masses? Two Wongs - 21/09/2011 03:21:40 PM 862 Views
You could still argue. Vivien - 21/09/2011 04:06:51 PM 725 Views
I didn't mean to imply that it is no fun to argue with a like-minded person Two Wongs - 21/09/2011 04:15:47 PM 761 Views
Eh, nobody uses pure logic all of the time anyway. Vivien - 21/09/2011 10:43:51 PM 799 Views
Or they could just do more math. Cold, hard, beautiful math. Vivien - 21/09/2011 04:01:05 PM 734 Views
I love geometry proofs. Nate - 21/09/2011 04:10:57 PM 854 Views
Me too <3 proofs! *NM* LaSombra - 21/09/2011 07:55:38 PM 412 Views
For pure enjoyment, here's a non math version. Vivien - 21/09/2011 10:10:40 PM 758 Views
+1 *NM* Isaac - 21/09/2011 07:59:57 PM 329 Views
Now we are talking... Everyone can benefit from some basic Euclid. jh - 21/09/2011 08:32:17 PM 998 Views
Ha. Ha. Vivien - 21/09/2011 09:56:38 PM 796 Views
As a follower of Cthulhu, I strongly disagree. Tom - 21/09/2011 11:13:55 PM 964 Views
I really and truly appreciate your love of pure math for math's sake, but... Tom - 21/09/2011 11:10:03 PM 769 Views
Well, it requires a lot more science to really dispute things than HS can give someone Isaac - 21/09/2011 11:28:29 PM 763 Views
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