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It is not a black and white issue Roland00 Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
1) It is not a black and white issue, there is no one real solution. Both possible forces admit that either way you are going to disenfranchise voters, it is just a question on which side of the line do you draw
a) either by not allowing people to vote for you don't have ids, this disenfranchise potential voters
or
b) there will be a small amount of voter fraud, voter fraud by definition disenfranchises voters that did vote

Moreover very few people are saying there is a large amount of voter fraud in the US and even if there was a large amount it is questionable if voter ids laws will fix it. (Many forms of ballot stuffing will not be fixed by voter id laws).

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2) Furthermore most people in this thread have been humble about their points. They have not made outlandish claims or spirit remarks. In addition no one to my knowledge have challenged another poster.

Remaining civil, being humble, and refraining from being an asshole usually increases the chance of a calm and polite discussion.
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 2023 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* Palatine - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 576 Views
From what I understand ... Nate - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1135 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 1008 Views
Well. Nate - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1140 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 620 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 985 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 717 Views
That is kind of pathetic. Joel - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 927 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account Ray - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 849 Views
I cannot speak to that. Joel - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 1051 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 1004 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 560 Views
Did you read your own article? Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 1057 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 1025 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... Burr - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 952 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 551 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. Burr - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 1024 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM 771 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 1111 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM 1041 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* Nate - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 580 Views
I'm magical? *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 645 Views
It is not a black and white issue Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 1032 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 563 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 593 Views
that's too obvious. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 1020 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 1020 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1074 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1112 Views
that's just what they want you to think. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 953 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1136 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM 568 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her Ray - 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM 999 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: jh - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1092 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1165 Views
You could walk. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 562 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1160 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 560 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1072 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. Sareitha Sedai - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 1017 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 568 Views
Every state has its own rules Isaac - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 1059 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case Isaac - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1081 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times... MightyYT - 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM 1083 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* Palatine - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 669 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 587 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.) Palatine - 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM 1046 Views
I don't see how it does A Deathwatch Guard - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1081 Views
Re: I don't see how it does Nate - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 1028 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 974 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM* Nate - 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM 505 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 608 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 472 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above A Deathwatch Guard - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 1053 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 588 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1144 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. Joel - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1076 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 1045 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? Ray - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 974 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1218 Views
That's smoke and mirrors Isaac - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1110 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 1038 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system random thoughts - 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM 976 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article Isaac - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 1038 Views
Question for you Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1078 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. Isaac - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1217 Views
I tend to agree Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 970 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting Isaac - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1081 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM 668 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM* dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM 665 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM* Nate - 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM 574 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM* random thoughts - 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM 586 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM 591 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM 627 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.) Joel - 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM 941 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1070 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1071 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 582 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 1032 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM 1022 Views
I'm not reading the article but... callandor1000 - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 998 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 965 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. Sareitha Sedai - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 945 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 969 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1188 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. Sareitha Sedai - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1103 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. callandor1000 - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1284 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 1062 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? Vivien - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1155 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* Isaac - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 580 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* Vivien - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 577 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 1010 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM 1004 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM 1147 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style. Vivien - 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM 1088 Views
What? Amyrlin - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 911 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1165 Views
the problem with that last point is... LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 1000 Views
Yes. Vivien - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1180 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 1037 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1253 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls LadyLorraine - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 972 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. Amyrlin - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 929 Views
What's your real question? Palatine - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 996 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 1074 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. Palatine - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1206 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so. Vivien - 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1101 Views
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