I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article
Isaac Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM
For the record I do serve as a poll judge and happen to be rather friendly with just about everyone who works for my local board of elections, and can name off the top of my head every single form of acceptable ID allowed under Ohio law... so be very careful implying ignorance on my part.
Your 5-year old article with obvious bias and tilt from the hack rag that is the NY Times is not, in my opinion, worth the time to read, though I have in fact read it before. It's been cited before, it's been criticized and dissected before. It also predates many of the 2008 election scandals and fraud that tend to be considered pivotal reasons why voter fraud should be a concern. Every aspect of that article is distortive, that questionable cases were prosecuted is not something that should be swept under the rug but is not relevant to what the laws should be and is raised purely to evoke sympathy or criticize the laws where a lack of reasonable arguments against them exist. Even the one cited, what bullshit is that, a felon accidentally voted? By the way, Prude was originally in jail for forgery, so it is not surprising someone might take a skeptical view of a forger attempting to vote, that's not usually a crime committed by people too ignorant to know well-know things like felons typically not being able to vote. Further, she was not a random citizen, she was a campaign volunteer actively involved in calling people to get them signed up for absentee ballots... do you seriously think she has an excuse for not knowing that she had no business voting absentee, especially considering she had a paid position with a get-out-the-vote group?
Now, under current law, since I defend current law and object to widening it - and would point out that citing low voter fraud under the current law even if true wouldn't be pertinent to voter fraud under possible new less restrictive laws - I can not picture a set of circumstances where a reasonable person could be denied the opportunity to vote. Those who forget their ID and have to go back for it but don't have the time do not interest me, for one thing, nobody has much legitimate cause walking let alone driving around without an ID, the latter of which is generally illegal and the former exhibits a great lack of common sense... a trait I generally prefer in voters. Even if they can't do that, most states (probably all but definitely mine) allow a person to vote on the spot provisionally then have ten day to go to the board of elections to prove they are who they claimed. So for that tiny fraction of people who don't have any of the various, often free, forms of ID, they can just swing by the BoE and provide it anytime in the next week and validate their vote. Any implication that our current laws are not fair is in my opinion suspect, implying lack of understanding or ulterior motive.
Your 5-year old article with obvious bias and tilt from the hack rag that is the NY Times is not, in my opinion, worth the time to read, though I have in fact read it before. It's been cited before, it's been criticized and dissected before. It also predates many of the 2008 election scandals and fraud that tend to be considered pivotal reasons why voter fraud should be a concern. Every aspect of that article is distortive, that questionable cases were prosecuted is not something that should be swept under the rug but is not relevant to what the laws should be and is raised purely to evoke sympathy or criticize the laws where a lack of reasonable arguments against them exist. Even the one cited, what bullshit is that, a felon accidentally voted? By the way, Prude was originally in jail for forgery, so it is not surprising someone might take a skeptical view of a forger attempting to vote, that's not usually a crime committed by people too ignorant to know well-know things like felons typically not being able to vote. Further, she was not a random citizen, she was a campaign volunteer actively involved in calling people to get them signed up for absentee ballots... do you seriously think she has an excuse for not knowing that she had no business voting absentee, especially considering she had a paid position with a get-out-the-vote group?
Now, under current law, since I defend current law and object to widening it - and would point out that citing low voter fraud under the current law even if true wouldn't be pertinent to voter fraud under possible new less restrictive laws - I can not picture a set of circumstances where a reasonable person could be denied the opportunity to vote. Those who forget their ID and have to go back for it but don't have the time do not interest me, for one thing, nobody has much legitimate cause walking let alone driving around without an ID, the latter of which is generally illegal and the former exhibits a great lack of common sense... a trait I generally prefer in voters. Even if they can't do that, most states (probably all but definitely mine) allow a person to vote on the spot provisionally then have ten day to go to the board of elections to prove they are who they claimed. So for that tiny fraction of people who don't have any of the various, often free, forms of ID, they can just swing by the BoE and provide it anytime in the next week and validate their vote. Any implication that our current laws are not fair is in my opinion suspect, implying lack of understanding or ulterior motive.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
- 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM
1976 Views
From what I understand ...
- 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM
1095 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things
- 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM
964 Views
Well.
- 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM
1092 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
- 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM
937 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM*
- 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM
695 Views
That is kind of pathetic.
- 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM
890 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is.
- 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM
965 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM*
- 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM
537 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate...
- 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM
912 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM*
- 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM
533 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID.
- 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM
983 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM*
- 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM
754 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow".
- 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
1062 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction
- 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM
998 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM*
- 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM
555 Views
It is not a black and white issue
- 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM
990 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM
546 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM
574 Views
that's too obvious.
- 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM
968 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit
- 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM
981 Views
have you ever had a rabbit?
- 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM
1033 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit
- 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM
1068 Views
that's just what they want you to think.
- 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM
910 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical
- 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
1106 Views
- 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM
1106 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM
554 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her
- 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM
956 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this:
- 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM
1043 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina.
- 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM
1119 Views
You could walk. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM
543 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away
- 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM
1126 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM*
- 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM
545 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless.
- 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM
1025 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence.
- 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM
980 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case
- 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM
1036 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times...
- 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM
1030 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM*
- 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM
649 Views
that would be interesting. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM
563 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.)
- 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM
1005 Views
I don't see how it does
- 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM
1048 Views
Re: I don't see how it does
- 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM
985 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV
- 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM
936 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM
486 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM
588 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM*
- 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM
455 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution
- 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM
1100 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem
- 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM
1002 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem?
- 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM
931 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted
- 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM
1168 Views
That's smoke and mirrors
- 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
1061 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point
- 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM
996 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system
- 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM
934 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article
- 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM
995 Views
Question for you
- 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM
1032 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need.
- 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM
1172 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM*
- 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM
648 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM*
- 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM
645 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM*
- 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM
555 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM*
- 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM
568 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM
572 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM*
- 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM
606 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.)
- 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM
896 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community?
- 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM
1027 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other.
- 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM
995 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military
- 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM
976 Views
I'm not reading the article but...
- 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM
963 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area
- 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM
932 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
- 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM
896 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot.
- 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM
1154 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares?
- 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM
1113 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM*
- 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM
562 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM*
- 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM
554 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion
- 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM
971 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics.
- 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM
967 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner
- 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
1101 Views
- 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM
1101 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style.
- 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM
1043 Views
What?
- 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM
870 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before?
- 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
1120 Views
the problem with that last point is...
- 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM
967 Views
Yes.
- 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM
1133 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though.
- 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM
997 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently.
- 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
1212 Views
What's your real question?
- 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM
930 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question.
- 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM
1026 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised.
- 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM
1169 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so.
- 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM
1048 Views

