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I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM
<<WTCRAP not only did I not intend to edit the original post, but post a reply to it, but for some reason I can't access what I originally posted!!! GRR!!!>>

Recreated-sorta-OP: The article below goes over this law that South Carolina is trying to pass to require photo ID. The federal government is stepping in and being all "THIS WILL DISENFRANCHISE BLACK AND MINORITY VOTERS!!!" and South Carolina is getting pissy because it views this as a state's right law that the government is interfering with. I'm just struggling to see how this disenfranchies blacks/minorities.

EDIT: Okay, I chatted with my mom and she pointed out a few things. I think they're fair points.

1) The reaction to this law is somewhat understandable because it harkens back to the old Jim Crow laws and their effects, which aren't even out of the memories of the living.

2) The low income bracket that is likely representative of the minority demographics likely lives on a cash basis and therefore wouldn't necessarily have an ID for things like the bank. I didn't think about that.

3) The accessibility of the DMV is probably lacking, as well as the information regarding how one goes about acquiring a photo ID for free. I brought up public libraries, but my mom pointed out that many of the areas of relevance probably don't have readily accessible public libraries either.

With those considerations, I guess I can see where the federal government is coming from in regards to these people not having IDs and not being able to get them. It still seems like something that a compromise could be reached on, though. Maybe have ID centers besides the DMV? Opening up ID centers could provide jobs (if only a few) for those areas as well.


But I always wonder when I hear this debate why more attention isn't paid to absentee ballots. I don't know if it's because they represent a smaller number of overall voting (if that's true), or because there are already measures in place that make fraud more difficult with them, or because they can be counted differently, or some other reason I'm not considering.
If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 2004 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 569 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1117 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 989 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1121 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 610 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 961 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 705 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 912 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 827 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 1034 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 988 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 547 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 1036 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 1006 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 934 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 542 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 1007 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 572 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 635 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 1010 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 555 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 582 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 994 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 1002 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1058 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1093 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 930 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1122 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1068 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1139 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 553 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1145 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 553 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1047 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 999 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 560 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 1040 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1063 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 660 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 576 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1071 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 1011 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 958 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 599 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 463 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 1037 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 576 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1127 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1059 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 1023 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 955 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1190 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1084 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 1020 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 1017 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1056 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1201 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 949 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1065 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1051 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 574 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 1015 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 979 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 951 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 924 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 950 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1174 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1084 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1265 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 1040 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1133 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 571 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 566 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 991 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 893 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1142 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 984 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1156 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 904 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 969 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 1051 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1186 Views

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