Active Users:682 Time:16/10/2025 12:48:24 PM
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien Send a noteboard - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM
That example is willfully misleading voters. Unless you're trying to say that DMV offices/similar entities may do something like this, I don't see how it's relevant to my point.

And, honestly, I think that's rather paranoid. Your example was not a government office. It was a CAMPAIGN MANAGER. If you want to make the argument that even the government can and will intentionally mislead voters...well you're welcome to make it but it's still incredibly paranoid and I don't think has a place in the discussion of normal life :P


I don't think it's paranoia to point out something that has already happened that's on this topic. Yes, it's not exactly the same as voter id laws, but it's in the same opera.

I never claimed that the government would intentionally mislead voters. This is an example of a district that's majority African American getting a robo call that the election has already been decided and that they can stay home. It's not that much of a stretch to imagine a robo call that says that the voter id laws in your state have been changed recently and make it seem more difficult than it actually is to vote. Such a robo call could say something like "anyone voting will be investigated for illegal immigrants residing in their homes" or you cannot vote if you don't have a valid us passport. The element of truth (that voter id laws have been changed) makes it more effective.

Edit: Also: this is an example of real election fraud. By real I mean the kind that is actually taking place, not the imaginary kind.
This message last edited by Vivien on 18/01/2012 at 11:45:33 PM
Reply to message
How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1955 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 548 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1066 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 945 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1072 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 589 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 914 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 686 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 863 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 781 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 976 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 947 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 527 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 996 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 959 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 888 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 525 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 959 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 547 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 617 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 967 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 537 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 563 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 947 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 958 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1003 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1028 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 889 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1084 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1021 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1100 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 536 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1106 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 536 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1001 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 953 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 540 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 996 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1011 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 638 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 553 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1021 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 960 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 911 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 571 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 444 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 986 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 557 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1078 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1018 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 980 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 907 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1142 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1034 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 972 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 972 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1011 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1150 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 908 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1015 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1016 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1001 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 557 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 941 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 902 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 876 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 903 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1136 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1042 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1228 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 994 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1083 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 555 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 543 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 947 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 856 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1094 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 940 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1104 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 978 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1181 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 919 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 861 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 905 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 999 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1148 Views

Reply to Message