How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
A lot of it IS about piracy, which is why SOME new law WILL be enacted. The pretense piracy is itself just a pretense, that media companies are just using Congress to censor people, undermines any criticism of the pending legislation. It encourages legislators to dismiss that criticism as falsely biased, mainly because IT IS. Offer them an alternative way to curb piracy, because they WILL enact a law with that aim, and if Big Media is the only one submitting suggestions, the final inevitable law will say pretty much whatever they like.
what good is it doing to pass a law to stop a website from being accessed when that website is still in operation if you know how to get to it? also, what happens if someone in the US asks for the IP for that website and someone else gives them a fake IP to go to which injects a virus into their computer?
As to the first, I think you just explained a great deal of why these bills would impose criminal penalties (though your "current laws are working and the media only wants new ones because current laws are not working" argument was good, too.) As to the second... um, what? If someone asks a third party for the IP of a site taken offline for violating US law, gets a fake IP and winds up with a virus, maybe that is a valuable object lesson. I mean, that kind of thing is already fairly ubiquitous online, but I am pretty sure the fault for that lies solely with people disseminating viruses online, and people can avoid most of them by avoiding shady links and sites.
tell me why this is safer than the current operation. tell me why, since piracy is such a problem, the film and music industries cannot prove what their actual losses are and have the results independently verified for statistical accuracy? the point is, they can't and won't because it's so much easier to bring out the spectre of PIRACY IS BAD AND EVIL AND KILLING US ALL TO DEATH.
Yeah, once again, good luck using that argument to convince Congress of anything except that people who think piracy should be ignored think piracy should be ignored (which we and they pretty much knew already.) I remember the Secret Service shutting down Steve Jackson Games as well as you do, and you cannot even convince ME things are fine as they are: How do you expect to convince Congressmen? Even I conceded Big Media is guilty of alarmist absolutism (which I do not, entirely) the antidote to that is not a different flavor of alarmist absolutism.
There WILL be a new anti-piracy law. Instead of forfeiting credibility with and thus relevance to legislators enacting it, why not try giving them the constructive feedback Obama explicitly requested. They still may not implement the legislation you prefer (seems likely, since you appear to prefer none,) but if you do not even tell them what you want they CANNOT implement it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
- 2245 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
- 1082 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
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I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
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I admit I have not looked into it much
17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
- 1136 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter.
18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
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I love you. *NM*
18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
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heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once.
*NM*
18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
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Can i second the adulation?
18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
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I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
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Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
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Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
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Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
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"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
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I would not have thought a source necessary.
18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
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Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
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OK.
18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
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should be interesting
17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
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Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
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See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
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So tell them that.
17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
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Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
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Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
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Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
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I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
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Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
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There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
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Re: There seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
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Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
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Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
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Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
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If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
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Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
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Er, what Ghav said.
18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
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Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
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Okay, another analogy:
18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
- 1015 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 1064 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
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Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
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Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
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If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
- 1033 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
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I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
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Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
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Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
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joel, you need to consider three things
18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
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You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
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again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
- 1215 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
- 1046 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
- 1041 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
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A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
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"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
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Wikipedia has already convinced me
18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
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Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
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It isn't their job to propose legislation
18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
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No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
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Strike three.
18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
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That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
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Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
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Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
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About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
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So true
18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
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Re: About "proposing new legislation"
18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
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Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
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I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
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Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
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Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
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I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
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These are really different arguments
19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
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TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
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Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
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Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
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Or just disable Java. *NM*
19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
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That's not as much fun though. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
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Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
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I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
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I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
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Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
- 1196 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
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Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
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Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
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13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
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How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
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