How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
A lot of it IS about piracy, which is why SOME new law WILL be enacted. The pretense piracy is itself just a pretense, that media companies are just using Congress to censor people, undermines any criticism of the pending legislation. It encourages legislators to dismiss that criticism as falsely biased, mainly because IT IS. Offer them an alternative way to curb piracy, because they WILL enact a law with that aim, and if Big Media is the only one submitting suggestions, the final inevitable law will say pretty much whatever they like.
what good is it doing to pass a law to stop a website from being accessed when that website is still in operation if you know how to get to it? also, what happens if someone in the US asks for the IP for that website and someone else gives them a fake IP to go to which injects a virus into their computer?
As to the first, I think you just explained a great deal of why these bills would impose criminal penalties (though your "current laws are working and the media only wants new ones because current laws are not working" argument was good, too.) As to the second... um, what? If someone asks a third party for the IP of a site taken offline for violating US law, gets a fake IP and winds up with a virus, maybe that is a valuable object lesson. I mean, that kind of thing is already fairly ubiquitous online, but I am pretty sure the fault for that lies solely with people disseminating viruses online, and people can avoid most of them by avoiding shady links and sites.
tell me why this is safer than the current operation. tell me why, since piracy is such a problem, the film and music industries cannot prove what their actual losses are and have the results independently verified for statistical accuracy? the point is, they can't and won't because it's so much easier to bring out the spectre of PIRACY IS BAD AND EVIL AND KILLING US ALL TO DEATH.
Yeah, once again, good luck using that argument to convince Congress of anything except that people who think piracy should be ignored think piracy should be ignored (which we and they pretty much knew already.) I remember the Secret Service shutting down Steve Jackson Games as well as you do, and you cannot even convince ME things are fine as they are: How do you expect to convince Congressmen? Even I conceded Big Media is guilty of alarmist absolutism (which I do not, entirely) the antidote to that is not a different flavor of alarmist absolutism.
There WILL be a new anti-piracy law. Instead of forfeiting credibility with and thus relevance to legislators enacting it, why not try giving them the constructive feedback Obama explicitly requested. They still may not implement the legislation you prefer (seems likely, since you appear to prefer none,) but if you do not even tell them what you want they CANNOT implement it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
English Wikipedia Anti-SOPA Blackout
- 17/01/2012 08:31:46 AM
2327 Views
Yeah, man, because currently copyright holders have no recourse, am I right?
- 17/01/2012 11:47:35 AM
1151 Views
"altering the infrastructure of the Internet so as to render RAFO virtually inaccessible"?
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1242 Views
- 17/01/2012 08:12:27 PM
1242 Views
I'll go ahead and ask before I get my panties in a bunch: do you understand these bills?
- 17/01/2012 09:09:22 PM
1348 Views
I admit I have not looked into it much
- 17/01/2012 11:42:30 PM
1211 Views
And yet you're still arguing the matter.
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1301 Views
- 18/01/2012 02:34:04 AM
1301 Views
I love you. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 03:41:03 AM
719 Views
heh, thanks. I usually find myself pushing minority opinions. Nice to be "appreciated" for once.
*NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
699 Views
*NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:01:10 AM
699 Views
Can i second the adulation?
- 18/01/2012 04:07:17 AM
1011 Views
I too (three?) appreciate the common sense and reasonable explanations. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 04:12:59 AM
692 Views
Right, because the argument is not just over THIS bill but, apparently, over ANY bill.
- 18/01/2012 11:09:13 AM
1193 Views
Alternatives to SOPA/PIPA have been proposed for months now. Please stop arguing this.
- 18/01/2012 05:42:10 PM
1108 Views
Also, in the case of the OPEN Act, it has not "been proposed for months."
- 18/01/2012 07:28:15 PM
1624 Views
"sensitive federal content"? Provide a source justifying this claim and it's relevance, please.
- 18/01/2012 05:59:47 PM
1226 Views
I would not have thought a source necessary.
- 18/01/2012 06:24:44 PM
1217 Views
Okay, I'm with Aemon now.
- 18/01/2012 07:36:21 PM
1216 Views
OK.
- 18/01/2012 10:16:16 PM
1245 Views
should be interesting
- 17/01/2012 12:41:47 PM
1078 Views
Could be; depends on a lot of factors.
- 17/01/2012 07:38:55 PM
1145 Views
See, that's one of the biggest problems that people aren't understanding.
- 17/01/2012 09:31:38 PM
1152 Views
So tell them that.
- 17/01/2012 11:54:19 PM
1309 Views
Joel, I think I'm done with this unless you want to do some research.
- 18/01/2012 02:53:19 AM
1115 Views
Research would tell me what is wrong with these bills and how a good bill should look.
- 18/01/2012 11:22:46 AM
1212 Views
Could've done without the snide rejoinder, but, good.
- 17/01/2012 02:20:08 PM
1060 Views
I love the black banner, like some kind of internet Holocaust.
- 17/01/2012 08:03:27 PM
1209 Views
Are you aware that SOPA/PIPA has nothing to do with hackers and everything to do with copyright?
- 18/01/2012 02:08:56 AM
1059 Views
There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 01:08:22 PM
1180 Views
Re: There seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 08:13:15 PM
1082 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 10:27:32 PM
1341 Views
Re: There still seems to be some overlap.
- 18/01/2012 11:30:39 PM
1163 Views
Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 04:08:58 PM
1194 Views
Re: Just because the news does not mention something does not automatically make it non-applicable.
- 19/01/2012 10:39:40 PM
1180 Views
If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 20/01/2012 09:12:29 PM
1464 Views
Re: If you re-read your last sentence it should be clear why this law is being pushed.
- 21/01/2012 03:19:49 AM
1065 Views
Er, what Ghav said.
- 18/01/2012 02:30:37 AM
1102 Views
Sorry, protecting Pirate Bay and offshore gambling are not compelling counterarguments.
- 18/01/2012 11:38:08 AM
1131 Views
Okay, another analogy:
- 18/01/2012 02:04:12 PM
1100 Views
The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 03:31:20 PM
1134 Views
what they SHOULD do is stop taking money from proponents of sopa/pipa
- 18/01/2012 03:51:09 PM
1183 Views
Yes, they should, but, once again, that approach will not prevent a new law.
- 18/01/2012 04:05:02 PM
1197 Views
Re: The devil is always in the details, and it seems clear the details need great revision.
- 18/01/2012 04:27:30 PM
1155 Views
If the US government wants to summarily block sites within the US, it already can and will.
- 18/01/2012 06:15:53 PM
1115 Views
You know all this anti-SOPA bullshit is making me hope the bill passes.
- 18/01/2012 04:00:17 AM
1162 Views
I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 18/01/2012 11:41:23 AM
1184 Views
Re: I would not go THAT far; it seems clear these bills have many objectionable provisions.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:46 AM
1005 Views
Yeah, the extreme bias on both sides is why the bills will likely pass more or less as written.
- 19/01/2012 03:31:52 PM
1199 Views
joel, you need to consider three things
- 18/01/2012 06:06:16 AM
1173 Views
You need to consider that they WILL pass some legislation, and what you want it to contain.
- 18/01/2012 12:15:38 PM
1218 Views
again, it's not about piracy, it's about protecting the mpaa/riaa business model at our expense
- 18/01/2012 03:34:32 PM
1284 Views
Yeah, see, that is the problem: "it's not about piracy."
- 18/01/2012 03:57:55 PM
1105 Views
if piracy is such a problem then the mpaa/riaa need to PROVE their losses
- 19/01/2012 02:43:31 AM
1098 Views
How do you expect anyone to prove what people WOULD HAVE bought if they could not just take it?
- 19/01/2012 03:57:24 PM
1424 Views
A technical examination of SOPA and PROTECT IP
- 18/01/2012 08:32:44 AM
1098 Views
"As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, I'm a sysadmin."
- 18/01/2012 12:47:16 PM
1341 Views
Wikipedia has already convinced me
- 18/01/2012 03:26:01 PM
964 Views
Trying to stop this legislation without proposing an alternative is trying to stop ANY legislation.
- 18/01/2012 03:44:18 PM
1175 Views
It isn't their job to propose legislation
- 18/01/2012 04:12:53 PM
1099 Views
No, but they have as much RIGHT to do so as anyone else.
- 18/01/2012 05:31:55 PM
1073 Views
Strike three.
- 18/01/2012 05:37:55 PM
1162 Views
That is fine; that is what people SHOULD be doing.
- 18/01/2012 06:03:59 PM
961 Views
Things being better now than they would be under SOPA seems like a legitimate argument to me
- 18/01/2012 09:04:18 PM
1223 Views
Against SOPA, sure; against ANY new law, no.
- 18/01/2012 10:46:48 PM
1089 Views
About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 04:45:08 PM
1210 Views
So true
- 18/01/2012 05:08:45 PM
1164 Views
Re: About "proposing new legislation"
- 18/01/2012 05:59:55 PM
1312 Views
Hm, you should read my post one above about combatting online piracy.
- 18/01/2012 06:20:16 PM
1246 Views
I would not recommend photocopying a book and handing it out on street corners.
- 18/01/2012 06:45:52 PM
1179 Views
Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 07:31:18 PM
1116 Views
Re: Not to blame, neccessarily. But you have to live in the real world.
- 18/01/2012 08:55:59 PM
1177 Views
I always liked the codewheels SSI provided with copies of their Gold Box AD&D games.
- 18/01/2012 10:07:40 PM
1328 Views
These are really different arguments
- 19/01/2012 12:05:10 AM
1079 Views
TV is slightly different, because regional availability becomes a factor.
- 19/01/2012 04:18:58 PM
1084 Views
Yeah, so I use Russian wikipedia for a day. Or German wikipedia, or French, or Italian... *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:23:36 PM
754 Views
Or just hit stop right before the script runs. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 06:52:40 PM
736 Views
Or just disable Java. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:58:03 AM
605 Views
That's not as much fun though. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:13:44 AM
730 Views
Exactly, this way its kind of a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 02:20:37 AM
538 Views
I really don't see the fun in that. Wikipedia is just a tool, not a game. *NM*
- 19/01/2012 04:59:14 AM
646 Views
I don't know about those (except French), but none of the ones I ever used are remotely as good. *NM*
- 18/01/2012 08:13:47 PM
729 Views
Russian wikipedia is very good if you're not checking some obscure Western cultural phenomena.
- 19/01/2012 01:57:43 AM
1261 Views
Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia...
- 19/01/2012 01:07:38 AM
1177 Views
Re: Or Answers.com, or even the actual sources that are often copy/pasted into Wikipedia... *NM*
- 19/01/2012 01:34:46 AM
767 Views
Oh, no; now Congress will be inundated with complaints from lazy college students!
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1227 Views
- 19/01/2012 04:40:12 PM
1227 Views
13 previously unopposed senators now do not support SOPA.
- 19/01/2012 11:36:15 PM
1205 Views
How does that "rebutt" what was a facetious post in the first place?
- 20/01/2012 09:24:27 PM
1286 Views


