And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
Joel Send a noteboard - 11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
No religion says, "don't give money that might be used by other people to do something that conflicts with our teachiings." Everything is about PERSONAL actions and personal responsibility.
PERSONAL actions and responsibility are precisely the problem here: The "public" healthcare law requires Catholic schools pay for an employee action Catholic doctrine forbids (use of birth control.) That is the particular issue in this case, but a Jehovahs Witness school could raise the same objection to paying for blood transfusions, too. Any religious institution could raise a valid First Amendment objection to paying for any form of healthcare that conflicts with its doctrine.
It is one thing when the entire public pays taxes to a federal government with discretion to use it for various public services, various ones of which are opposed by various sections of the public. It is an entirely different thing when federal law makes one of those sections directly responsible for financing things they oppose on religious grounds. The latter does and the former does not conflict with the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....
The difference is great enough opposing federally funded healthcare that includes abortion is ridiculous to me, but requiring churches pay for employees violating church doctrine equally so. Again, this is why we should have created a public healthcare system that is just that instead of the travesty we created instead.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Democrats bailing on Obama - War against the Catholic Church heats up
09/02/2012 04:03:35 AM
- 1865 Views
This is not a war on Catholics, it is Obama being an idiot again.
09/02/2012 04:52:01 AM
- 897 Views
For someone who used to be a Con Law professor
10/02/2012 08:23:34 PM
- 779 Views
In general, I disagree with that view, but not in this particular case.
11/02/2012 02:02:42 AM
- 1016 Views
Also, kudos for linking to a source, and a fairly non-partisan one as well.
09/02/2012 01:33:07 PM
- 966 Views
I am a non-partisan guy, so I only use unbiased sources!
*NM*
09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
- 649 Views

Wanting both parties to be hit by a bus does not make one non-partisan.
09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
- 845 Views

You lost all credibility in the first line of your post.
09/02/2012 04:49:23 PM
- 906 Views
You actually think any of us has 'credibility' anymore in regards to neutrality? *NM*
09/02/2012 06:46:13 PM
- 539 Views
It's one thing to have a bias.
09/02/2012 07:28:51 PM
- 948 Views
Wow, talk about making a supernova out of a couple hydrogen atoms.
09/02/2012 08:41:44 PM
- 755 Views
The Catholic Church wants to eliminate the birth control coverage requirement entirely.
10/02/2012 12:24:01 AM
- 1066 Views
Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare
10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM
- 1011 Views
I'm somewhat suprised that Obama blundered this badly.
10/02/2012 01:40:14 AM
- 1770 Views
Why? Have you not been paying attention?
10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
- 2213 Views

If I am not satisfied with Romney then my Plan B is to not vote.
10/02/2012 10:58:34 PM
- 2258 Views
How does that help anything? Except Romneys election chances, of course.
11/02/2012 01:08:22 AM
- 2070 Views
No everynametaken this is not unconsitutional according to the first ammendment
11/02/2012 12:14:29 AM
- 2068 Views
Obama doing this actually impresses me to no end.
10/02/2012 02:21:10 AM
- 2305 Views
He is already preparing to cave.
10/02/2012 02:42:32 AM
- 2297 Views
Why are you even replying to me? What you said has little meaning to what I said.
10/02/2012 03:33:27 AM
- 2080 Views
Aaaaand you can put your hat back on now: Obama has already caved.
10/02/2012 04:04:30 PM
- 2301 Views
Yup, the cave already happened.....you could have set your watch to this! *NM*
10/02/2012 05:00:02 PM
- 1731 Views
Actually, no, I could not; I expected it to take another week or two.
11/02/2012 01:27:31 AM
- 2180 Views
No, you don't have to buy it from insurers. You get it for free, just like everyone else will. *NM*
10/02/2012 09:55:53 PM
- 1876 Views
"The employees can then buy the coverage directly from an insurer."
11/02/2012 01:25:52 AM
- 2308 Views
Then that article is wrong.
11/02/2012 01:43:40 AM
- 2248 Views
Two days ago the White House said it would not back down from requiring school/hospital compliance.
11/02/2012 01:57:50 AM
- 2227 Views
So in summary... the article you posted was wrong.
11/02/2012 02:18:00 AM
- 1785 Views
To soon to tell, but if you think so feel free to demand a correction from them.
11/02/2012 03:12:40 AM
- 1008 Views
Losing the exchanges is a pretty big loss
11/02/2012 03:30:15 AM
- 927 Views
So they refuse to cover it for the next two years, then do an about face in 2014.
11/02/2012 03:57:53 AM
- 1093 Views
If Aetna does not provide the free contraception as part of the compromise
11/02/2012 02:46:14 AM
- 777 Views
Yeah, I saw that; if Aetna does not do as Obama says by 2014 they lose out on free profits then.
11/02/2012 03:13:36 AM
- 841 Views
So Jehovah Witness employers should not have to pay for blood transfusions?
10/02/2012 03:57:47 AM
- 858 Views
Not if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
10/02/2012 04:20:32 PM
- 1048 Views
Money is not the same as speech!
10/02/2012 07:20:56 PM
- 763 Views
And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
- 1036 Views
No it isn't Joel, empirically you are dead wrong
10/02/2012 11:24:19 PM
- 1016 Views
I do not see how requiring private entities do it instead of the feds is "least restrictive way."
11/02/2012 12:53:22 AM
- 1019 Views
Catholic Charities of Sacramento Inc. v. Superior Court
11/02/2012 01:21:46 AM
- 924 Views
"the Court found that it wasn't a religious organization, it was just a non-profit corporation."
11/02/2012 01:36:33 AM
- 790 Views
One last point
10/02/2012 11:35:25 PM
- 1104 Views
The federal government forcing private groups to facilitate without committing sin also infringes.
11/02/2012 01:03:30 AM
- 881 Views
You argument does not make sense
11/02/2012 01:26:57 AM
- 762 Views
It was an analogy, not an equivalency.
11/02/2012 01:48:14 AM
- 883 Views
Lets enhance your analogy making it closer to reality
11/02/2012 02:19:41 AM
- 997 Views
Why could I not buy it with my own money?
11/02/2012 03:46:33 AM
- 958 Views
Re: Why could I not buy it with my own money?
11/02/2012 04:17:17 AM
- 2181 Views
In other words, I could.
11/02/2012 04:21:05 AM
- 688 Views
You believe it can't help people since it is not single payer? *NM*
11/02/2012 04:31:13 AM
- 555 Views
Since you answered this in your other response I will just adress it there. *MN*
11/02/2012 05:59:37 AM
- 943 Views
Some more points
11/02/2012 02:30:27 AM
- 1015 Views
Sex is not a necessity either.
11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM
- 973 Views
LMAO due to Obama's compromise (the word compromise should have a
in it )
11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
- 996 Views

Obama just got two weeks of being portrayed as "anti-church" to the point even Dems complained.
11/02/2012 02:00:28 AM
- 930 Views
The polls disagree with you.
11/02/2012 02:32:59 AM
- 868 Views
It is an interesting article, but not for the polls.
11/02/2012 04:18:17 AM
- 919 Views
I wouldn't put too much into that poll anyway
11/02/2012 05:37:05 AM
- 1045 Views
Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate.
11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM
- 928 Views
I haven't really heard about it outside of this post, so the negative exposure can't be too bad.
11/02/2012 05:56:58 PM
- 734 Views
There seems to be plenty of Hell raising over it, but you are in the States and I am not.
11/02/2012 07:55:51 PM
- 766 Views
I don't think it's quite the laughing matter you think it is
11/02/2012 12:31:23 PM
- 921 Views
Understood.
11/02/2012 07:51:14 PM
- 861 Views
mmm...
11/02/2012 08:20:26 PM
- 925 Views
The man talked about during the campaign was the one elected with a mandate.
12/02/2012 02:28:15 AM
- 1074 Views
I think Obama (for once) was far more clever you give him credit for...
15/02/2012 05:11:10 PM
- 1144 Views
Surrendering on liberal issues then blaming Republicans is not just Obamas strategy, but his POLICY.
15/02/2012 07:23:04 PM
- 981 Views