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Sex is not a necessity either. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM
Except for procreation (which is technically only a societal, not personal, necessity) but that is off the table with contraception.
You compare contraception to alcohol, I find this comparison kinda offensive for most people don't consider an alcohol a necessity. When you are making only 20k a year ($10 dollars an hour at less than 40 hours a week), you can't afford to have a kid unless you want to raise that kid in extreme poverty. Mind blowing poverty where you are barely making by as an individual. You would want this person to spend another $95 dollars a month to make sure she doesn't get pregnant? That is $1200 a year or 6% of that person's income.

It still will not make sure she does not get pregnant. Only abstinence will do that; fortunately it is free and requires no contraception to work.

What business of the Church is it that you use contraceptive? Medical records are PRIVATE, what business does the Church have in get involved in your personal life. This is a relationship between a women, her doctor, her pharmacist, her partner, and her insurance company.

And the person paying that insurance company to provide her medical coverage, which is her employer, because Obama screwed the pooch on healthcare reform. Paying for it gives them a say in non-critical care, which contraception is.

The Church is not involved for we have medical privacy laws for a reason!

This is a payment issue, not a privacy issue. It is not the churchs business whether I use contraception (apart from their ministry responsibility, but I am free to tell them to go hang, with no penalty.) How they spend their money is LITERALLY their business.

This is like having the church follow you around when you are on your own time, your personal time, and when you go to a barnes and noble say you can't buy that book for it is soft core pornography. You can't buy it for you work at the church and the church pays you and the church disproves. And it isn't just Barnes and Noble, it is also Amazon.com, the local book store, every book store, whenever you wish to buy a book the church has the right to say no as soon as you swipe your debt card and the cashier will then say I can't let you buy this your card has been disproved. The only way to get out of this situation is to have two jobs instead of 1, and make sure the second job won't prevent you from buying books at barnes and noble.

Oh, it is nothing like that and you know it. Once they pay you the money is yours, not theirs. We are talking about how they spend money that was NEVER yours, but ALWAYS theirs until they paid it to an insurer. They are wholly within their rights to decide what they will and will not pay that insurer to do. If the insurer decides, for whatever reason, to provide contraception coverage with some of their profits IN ADDITION TO what they have contracted with the church to provide, they are as free to do so as I am to buy porn with my pay once it BECOMES my pay. I just hope the reduced pregnancy costs and lure of the insurance exchange is enough incentive for them to do that, because otherwise they will refuse and there is little anyone can do about it.
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Democrats bailing on Obama - War against the Catholic Church heats up Anonymous2000 - 09/02/2012 04:03:35 AM 1988 Views
This is not a war on Catholics, it is Obama being an idiot again. Joel - 09/02/2012 04:52:01 AM 1015 Views
For someone who used to be a Con Law professor MightyYT - 10/02/2012 08:23:34 PM 926 Views
In general, I disagree with that view, but not in this particular case. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:02:42 AM 1132 Views
Also, kudos for linking to a source, and a fairly non-partisan one as well. Joel - 09/02/2012 01:33:07 PM 1095 Views
I am a non-partisan guy, so I only use unbiased sources! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM 701 Views
Is there really such a thing? *NM* Aemon - 09/02/2012 04:11:30 PM 606 Views
Wanting both parties to be hit by a bus does not make one non-partisan. Joel - 09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM 977 Views
You lost all credibility in the first line of your post. Dannymac - 09/02/2012 04:49:23 PM 1040 Views
The subject line didn't help. *NM* nossy - 09/02/2012 06:04:11 PM 646 Views
But it added some flair to the discussion! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 09/02/2012 07:46:47 PM 577 Views
You actually think any of us has 'credibility' anymore in regards to neutrality? *NM* Isaac - 09/02/2012 06:46:13 PM 586 Views
It's one thing to have a bias. Dannymac - 09/02/2012 07:28:51 PM 1078 Views
Some would say putting a spotlight on it is more honest. *NM* Urza - 09/02/2012 09:34:17 PM 558 Views
Ah, the Rupert Murdoch School of Objectivity. Joel - 09/02/2012 10:15:57 PM 1004 Views
Wow, talk about making a supernova out of a couple hydrogen atoms. TaskmasterJack - 09/02/2012 08:41:44 PM 868 Views
The Catholic Church wants to eliminate the birth control coverage requirement entirely. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/02/2012 12:24:01 AM 1173 Views
Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare Joel - 10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM 1147 Views
I'm somewhat suprised that Obama blundered this badly. everynametaken - 10/02/2012 01:40:14 AM 1887 Views
Why? Have you not been paying attention? Joel - 10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM 2332 Views
If I am not satisfied with Romney then my Plan B is to not vote. everynametaken - 10/02/2012 10:58:34 PM 2382 Views
How does that help anything? Except Romneys election chances, of course. Joel - 11/02/2012 01:08:22 AM 2185 Views
Bullshit. everynametaken - 11/02/2012 04:29:31 AM 2538 Views
A vote for no one is a vote for more BS. Joel - 11/02/2012 05:55:11 AM 2276 Views
No everynametaken this is not unconsitutional according to the first ammendment Roland00 - 11/02/2012 12:14:29 AM 2214 Views
Obama doing this actually impresses me to no end. callandor1000 - 10/02/2012 02:21:10 AM 2439 Views
He is already preparing to cave. Joel - 10/02/2012 02:42:32 AM 2409 Views
Why are you even replying to me? What you said has little meaning to what I said. callandor1000 - 10/02/2012 03:33:27 AM 2197 Views
"And here I thought he was just another politician." Joel - 10/02/2012 01:29:36 PM 2287 Views
Aaaaand you can put your hat back on now: Obama has already caved. Joel - 10/02/2012 04:04:30 PM 2422 Views
Yup, the cave already happened.....you could have set your watch to this! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 10/02/2012 05:00:02 PM 1803 Views
Actually, no, I could not; I expected it to take another week or two. Joel - 11/02/2012 01:27:31 AM 2303 Views
No, you don't have to buy it from insurers. You get it for free, just like everyone else will. *NM* Dreaded Anomaly - 10/02/2012 09:55:53 PM 1925 Views
"The employees can then buy the coverage directly from an insurer." Joel - 11/02/2012 01:25:52 AM 2429 Views
Then that article is wrong. Dreaded Anomaly - 11/02/2012 01:43:40 AM 2371 Views
Two days ago the White House said it would not back down from requiring school/hospital compliance. Joel - 11/02/2012 01:57:50 AM 2356 Views
So in summary... the article you posted was wrong. Dreaded Anomaly - 11/02/2012 02:18:00 AM 1928 Views
To soon to tell, but if you think so feel free to demand a correction from them. Joel - 11/02/2012 03:12:40 AM 1137 Views
Losing the exchanges is a pretty big loss Roland00 - 11/02/2012 03:30:15 AM 1047 Views
So they refuse to cover it for the next two years, then do an about face in 2014. Joel - 11/02/2012 03:57:53 AM 1219 Views
If Aetna does not provide the free contraception as part of the compromise Roland00 - 11/02/2012 02:46:14 AM 915 Views
Yeah, I saw that; if Aetna does not do as Obama says by 2014 they lose out on free profits then. Joel - 11/02/2012 03:13:36 AM 953 Views
So Jehovah Witness employers should not have to pay for blood transfusions? Roland00 - 10/02/2012 03:57:47 AM 986 Views
Not if it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Joel - 10/02/2012 04:20:32 PM 1153 Views
Money is not the same as speech! Aeryn - 10/02/2012 07:20:56 PM 883 Views
And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions. Joel - 11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM 1170 Views
No it isn't Joel, empirically you are dead wrong Roland00 - 10/02/2012 11:24:19 PM 1161 Views
I do not see how requiring private entities do it instead of the feds is "least restrictive way." Joel - 11/02/2012 12:53:22 AM 1217 Views
Catholic Charities of Sacramento Inc. v. Superior Court Roland00 - 11/02/2012 01:21:46 AM 1064 Views
"the Court found that it wasn't a religious organization, it was just a non-profit corporation." Joel - 11/02/2012 01:36:33 AM 945 Views
The situation was identical to the pre obama controversy Roland00 - 11/02/2012 02:42:57 AM 857 Views
The affiliation is the sticking point. Joel - 11/02/2012 03:41:33 AM 1219 Views
One last point Roland00 - 10/02/2012 11:35:25 PM 1235 Views
The federal government forcing private groups to facilitate without committing sin also infringes. Joel - 11/02/2012 01:03:30 AM 977 Views
You argument does not make sense Roland00 - 11/02/2012 01:26:57 AM 866 Views
It was an analogy, not an equivalency. Joel - 11/02/2012 01:48:14 AM 982 Views
Lets enhance your analogy making it closer to reality Roland00 - 11/02/2012 02:19:41 AM 1133 Views
Why could I not buy it with my own money? Joel - 11/02/2012 03:46:33 AM 1112 Views
Re: Why could I not buy it with my own money? Roland00 - 11/02/2012 04:17:17 AM 2316 Views
In other words, I could. Joel - 11/02/2012 04:21:05 AM 818 Views
You believe it can't help people since it is not single payer? *NM* Roland00 - 11/02/2012 04:31:13 AM 604 Views
Since you answered this in your other response I will just adress it there. *MN* Joel - 11/02/2012 05:59:37 AM 1057 Views
Some more points Roland00 - 11/02/2012 02:30:27 AM 1126 Views
Sex is not a necessity either. Joel - 11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM 1107 Views
I can't believe you just said that Roland00 - 11/02/2012 04:30:12 AM 902 Views
The widespread inability to believe that is deeply worrisome. Joel - 11/02/2012 06:33:01 AM 1124 Views
LMAO due to Obama's compromise (the word compromise should have a in it ) Roland00 - 11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM 1143 Views
Obama just got two weeks of being portrayed as "anti-church" to the point even Dems complained. Joel - 11/02/2012 02:00:28 AM 1048 Views
The polls disagree with you. Roland00 - 11/02/2012 02:32:59 AM 988 Views
It is an interesting article, but not for the polls. Joel - 11/02/2012 04:18:17 AM 1066 Views
I wouldn't put too much into that poll anyway Isaac - 11/02/2012 05:37:05 AM 1156 Views
Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate. Joel - 11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM 1055 Views
I haven't really heard about it outside of this post, so the negative exposure can't be too bad. TaskmasterJack - 11/02/2012 05:56:58 PM 861 Views
There seems to be plenty of Hell raising over it, but you are in the States and I am not. Joel - 11/02/2012 07:55:51 PM 903 Views
you have, sort of. nossy - 11/02/2012 08:23:25 PM 1114 Views
I don't think it's quite the laughing matter you think it is nossy - 11/02/2012 12:31:23 PM 1023 Views
Nossy that was not Joel, that was me Roland00 - 11/02/2012 01:56:39 PM 1038 Views
I know that. nossy - 11/02/2012 03:23:32 PM 1083 Views
Understood. Joel - 11/02/2012 07:51:14 PM 975 Views
mmm... nossy - 11/02/2012 08:20:26 PM 1057 Views
The man talked about during the campaign was the one elected with a mandate. Joel - 12/02/2012 02:28:15 AM 1199 Views
I think Obama (for once) was far more clever you give him credit for... DomA - 15/02/2012 05:11:10 PM 1256 Views
Surrendering on liberal issues then blaming Republicans is not just Obamas strategy, but his POLICY. Joel - 15/02/2012 07:23:04 PM 1143 Views
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