Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate.
Joel Send a noteboard - 11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM
It's from PRRI, the allegedly non-partisan group which is headed by a staff of liberals that, IMO, reeks of 'new age' spiritualism. Their founder, <a href="http://progressiveandreligious.com/about.html">Robert P. Jones</a>, pretty much describes their motives, the others I looked up were much the same. Doesn't mean they're wrong, though I did look up their methodology and questionnaire and it didn't exactly wow me, but it sounds to me like they got the results they wanted to see. I've seen other polls that show Obama hurt badly amongst catholics over this but frankly it's too soon to see if it will have much impact.
Except, and I haven't seen anyone mention this yet here or elsewhere, though I'd think it kinda a big deal... Justice Anthony Kennedy, the dude who will almost certainly decide if Obamacare lives or dies... is Roman Catholic. So, strikes me that in spite of some people crowing over this, when the times comes for Kennedy to decide how he feels about the whole mandatory coverage thing this might cross his mind in a less than positive fashion.
Except, and I haven't seen anyone mention this yet here or elsewhere, though I'd think it kinda a big deal... Justice Anthony Kennedy, the dude who will almost certainly decide if Obamacare lives or dies... is Roman Catholic. So, strikes me that in spite of some people crowing over this, when the times comes for Kennedy to decide how he feels about the whole mandatory coverage thing this might cross his mind in a less than positive fashion.
If we throw out public mandates income taxes are illegal; Obamacare is just an awful bill. This particular issue illustrates that well, but so do many others; if we think every American should have healthcare, consider it a civil right (like every other civilized country on the planet,) we will create a public option. Until then we are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic while the private insurers who made this mess despite not providing so much as an aspirin themselves gleefully rub their hands over their trillion dollar windfall. That is if we just count the federal portion, without all the money they will get from people who do not qualify for government help but are still forced to buy insurance they need but cannot afford.
As to the poll, again, even if totally non-partisan with perfect methodology, there is not enough relevant data to say how the drama affects the critical demographics. But you make a good point regarding the SCOTUS; given two-thirds of it is Catholic, picking a fight with the Vatican over Obamacare might be a mistake.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/02/2012 at 07:23:23 AM
Democrats bailing on Obama - War against the Catholic Church heats up
- 09/02/2012 04:03:35 AM
1937 Views
This is not a war on Catholics, it is Obama being an idiot again.
- 09/02/2012 04:52:01 AM
965 Views
For someone who used to be a Con Law professor
- 10/02/2012 08:23:34 PM
867 Views
In general, I disagree with that view, but not in this particular case.
- 11/02/2012 02:02:42 AM
1086 Views
Also, kudos for linking to a source, and a fairly non-partisan one as well.
- 09/02/2012 01:33:07 PM
1040 Views
I am a non-partisan guy, so I only use unbiased sources!
*NM*
- 09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
675 Views
*NM*
- 09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
675 Views
Wanting both parties to be hit by a bus does not make one non-partisan.
- 09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
927 Views
- 09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
927 Views
You lost all credibility in the first line of your post.
- 09/02/2012 04:49:23 PM
982 Views
You actually think any of us has 'credibility' anymore in regards to neutrality? *NM*
- 09/02/2012 06:46:13 PM
569 Views
It's one thing to have a bias.
- 09/02/2012 07:28:51 PM
1022 Views
Wow, talk about making a supernova out of a couple hydrogen atoms.
- 09/02/2012 08:41:44 PM
825 Views
The Catholic Church wants to eliminate the birth control coverage requirement entirely.
- 10/02/2012 12:24:01 AM
1129 Views
Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare
- 10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM
1089 Views
I'm somewhat suprised that Obama blundered this badly.
- 10/02/2012 01:40:14 AM
1839 Views
Why? Have you not been paying attention?
- 10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
2289 Views
- 10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
2289 Views
If I am not satisfied with Romney then my Plan B is to not vote.
- 10/02/2012 10:58:34 PM
2335 Views
How does that help anything? Except Romneys election chances, of course.
- 11/02/2012 01:08:22 AM
2137 Views
No everynametaken this is not unconsitutional according to the first ammendment
- 11/02/2012 12:14:29 AM
2149 Views
Obama doing this actually impresses me to no end.
- 10/02/2012 02:21:10 AM
2397 Views
He is already preparing to cave.
- 10/02/2012 02:42:32 AM
2364 Views
Why are you even replying to me? What you said has little meaning to what I said.
- 10/02/2012 03:33:27 AM
2156 Views
Aaaaand you can put your hat back on now: Obama has already caved.
- 10/02/2012 04:04:30 PM
2368 Views
Yup, the cave already happened.....you could have set your watch to this! *NM*
- 10/02/2012 05:00:02 PM
1776 Views
Actually, no, I could not; I expected it to take another week or two.
- 11/02/2012 01:27:31 AM
2244 Views
No, you don't have to buy it from insurers. You get it for free, just like everyone else will. *NM*
- 10/02/2012 09:55:53 PM
1913 Views
"The employees can then buy the coverage directly from an insurer."
- 11/02/2012 01:25:52 AM
2378 Views
Then that article is wrong.
- 11/02/2012 01:43:40 AM
2326 Views
Two days ago the White House said it would not back down from requiring school/hospital compliance.
- 11/02/2012 01:57:50 AM
2301 Views
So in summary... the article you posted was wrong.
- 11/02/2012 02:18:00 AM
1874 Views
To soon to tell, but if you think so feel free to demand a correction from them.
- 11/02/2012 03:12:40 AM
1084 Views
Losing the exchanges is a pretty big loss
- 11/02/2012 03:30:15 AM
1000 Views
So they refuse to cover it for the next two years, then do an about face in 2014.
- 11/02/2012 03:57:53 AM
1171 Views
If Aetna does not provide the free contraception as part of the compromise
- 11/02/2012 02:46:14 AM
860 Views
Yeah, I saw that; if Aetna does not do as Obama says by 2014 they lose out on free profits then.
- 11/02/2012 03:13:36 AM
903 Views
So Jehovah Witness employers should not have to pay for blood transfusions?
- 10/02/2012 03:57:47 AM
934 Views
Not if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
- 10/02/2012 04:20:32 PM
1109 Views
Money is not the same as speech!
- 10/02/2012 07:20:56 PM
835 Views
And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
- 11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
1101 Views
No it isn't Joel, empirically you are dead wrong
- 10/02/2012 11:24:19 PM
1109 Views
I do not see how requiring private entities do it instead of the feds is "least restrictive way."
- 11/02/2012 12:53:22 AM
1140 Views
Catholic Charities of Sacramento Inc. v. Superior Court
- 11/02/2012 01:21:46 AM
1013 Views
"the Court found that it wasn't a religious organization, it was just a non-profit corporation."
- 11/02/2012 01:36:33 AM
894 Views
One last point
- 10/02/2012 11:35:25 PM
1190 Views
The federal government forcing private groups to facilitate without committing sin also infringes.
- 11/02/2012 01:03:30 AM
935 Views
You argument does not make sense
- 11/02/2012 01:26:57 AM
826 Views
It was an analogy, not an equivalency.
- 11/02/2012 01:48:14 AM
940 Views
Lets enhance your analogy making it closer to reality
- 11/02/2012 02:19:41 AM
1085 Views
Why could I not buy it with my own money?
- 11/02/2012 03:46:33 AM
1052 Views
Re: Why could I not buy it with my own money?
- 11/02/2012 04:17:17 AM
2264 Views
In other words, I could.
- 11/02/2012 04:21:05 AM
777 Views
You believe it can't help people since it is not single payer? *NM*
- 11/02/2012 04:31:13 AM
588 Views
Since you answered this in your other response I will just adress it there. *MN*
- 11/02/2012 05:59:37 AM
1014 Views
Some more points
- 11/02/2012 02:30:27 AM
1076 Views
Sex is not a necessity either.
- 11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM
1048 Views
LMAO due to Obama's compromise (the word compromise should have a
in it )
- 11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
1082 Views
in it )
- 11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
1082 Views
Obama just got two weeks of being portrayed as "anti-church" to the point even Dems complained.
- 11/02/2012 02:00:28 AM
1002 Views
The polls disagree with you.
- 11/02/2012 02:32:59 AM
943 Views
It is an interesting article, but not for the polls.
- 11/02/2012 04:18:17 AM
1012 Views
I wouldn't put too much into that poll anyway
- 11/02/2012 05:37:05 AM
1107 Views
Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate.
- 11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM
1009 Views
I haven't really heard about it outside of this post, so the negative exposure can't be too bad.
- 11/02/2012 05:56:58 PM
813 Views
There seems to be plenty of Hell raising over it, but you are in the States and I am not.
- 11/02/2012 07:55:51 PM
840 Views
I don't think it's quite the laughing matter you think it is
- 11/02/2012 12:31:23 PM
983 Views
Understood.
- 11/02/2012 07:51:14 PM
917 Views
mmm...
- 11/02/2012 08:20:26 PM
1003 Views
The man talked about during the campaign was the one elected with a mandate.
- 12/02/2012 02:28:15 AM
1149 Views
I think Obama (for once) was far more clever you give him credit for...
- 15/02/2012 05:11:10 PM
1211 Views
Surrendering on liberal issues then blaming Republicans is not just Obamas strategy, but his POLICY.
- 15/02/2012 07:23:04 PM
1079 Views

*NM*