Active Users:2289 Time:02/05/2026 10:37:58 AM
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom Send a noteboard - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM

Every religion has extremists, but you can't deny that Islam is in a state of crisis right now. A significant minority supports radical Salafist violence, and by "significant minority" you're talking about tens of millions, if not a few hundred million, people.

That radical recourse to violence is helping to exacerbate political disputes and has made most of the Middle East a miserable place right now. You can hardly name a country with a significant Muslim population that isn't having problems with Muslim violence:

Iraq - bombings, sectarian violence
Syria - civil war with jihadi characteristics
Libya - jihadi violence
Tunisia - jihadi violence
Nigeria - Boko Haram insurgency
Somalia - Al Shabaab insurgency
Yemen - jihadi insurgency, sectarian violence
Egypt - generalized chaos and violence
Lebanon - low-level sectarian violence, fears of return to civil war
Pakistan - sectarian violence, Taliban insurgency
Afghanistan - Taliban insurgency
Russia - low-level insurgency in Caucasus by "Islamic Caliphate"
Indonesia - Salafist movements in Aceh and elsewhere, low-level terrorism
Thailand - Islamic insurgency in the south
Burma - Muslim-Buddhist violence

Even the countries that have traditionally been considered calm are starting to have problems and tensions over Islamization of society, such as Turkey, Jordan and Morocco. In fact, it seems that only the most repressive societies - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and Bahrain - are able to maintain order.

That certainly doesn't mean that the hundreds of millions of non-violent Muslims should be subjected to attacks by people solely because of their religion, but there is a quantitative and qualitative difference between Islam today and other religions. You can't, with a straight face, honestly say "there are extremist Christians as much as there are extremist Muslims", at least not when we're talking about acts of violence. If all Muslim violence were perpetrated by a group as small as the Westboro Baptist Church, we wouldn't be talking about Islamic terrorism.

By saying "a tiny fringe" you imply that 90% or more of Muslims are peaceful and tolerant. The latest polling shows otherwise. Yes, the majority is peaceful, but only a small minority is "tolerant" by Western standards, and the minority that supports violence is fairly high. When over 1 in 4 Egyptians believe that suicide bombings of civilians can be justified, and even 10-15% of people in places like Turkey and Jordan believe that, we are talking about significant numbers. The numbers are thankfully down from 2005, when 30-40% globally supported suicide bombings, but they are still significant numbers.

Finally, most Christians are more tolerant than most Muslims. The latest Pew Survey, which I have already linked, again shows that most Muslims do not have Christian or Jewish or Buddhist friends: http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-interfaith-relations.aspx. Moreover, overwhelming majorities in many countries (above 70% in most Middle Eastern nations) favor applying the death penalty to anyone who leaves Islam: http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia.aspx.

I am not willing to play the political correctness games that everyone else seems to be playing here. While the original post does tar every Muslim with the same brush, your response was just as absurd.




Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
Pew Survey on Suicide Bombings
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 3006 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 976 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 873 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 936 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1498 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1609 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 889 Views
FALSE! - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1613 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1562 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1789 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1589 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1880 Views
Ok....and? - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1461 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 927 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1531 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 960 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1572 Views
LOL. - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1511 Views
Violence.... - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1554 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1379 Views
You are something... - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1451 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 929 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1429 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1518 Views
Yes. - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1436 Views
Re: Yes. - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1526 Views
You know better than that. - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1511 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1605 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 865 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1465 Views
... ? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 913 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 858 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1490 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1386 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1557 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1512 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1513 Views
Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1589 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1612 Views
No, it actaully does not. - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1570 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1414 Views
Exactly - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1504 Views
Couple of things - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1839 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1657 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1513 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1516 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1545 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1386 Views
That's a shame. - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1367 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1393 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1352 Views
Sure, I'll bite. - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1553 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1449 Views
I hope you like black and white. - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1369 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1447 Views
I think I must have confused you. - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1355 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1429 Views
Not really - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1455 Views
Yawn. Bored now. - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1408 Views
whatever *NM* - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 810 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1706 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1571 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1788 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1381 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1483 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1458 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1642 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 811 Views
I agree. *NM* - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 876 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1563 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1475 Views
Oh, so its our fault... - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1430 Views
It's always our fault *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 1005 Views
In general, I agree - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1596 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1479 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 926 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1526 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1363 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1579 Views
Exactly. - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1511 Views
Hyperbole? - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1357 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1621 Views
No, I really don't think so. - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1422 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1376 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1546 Views
It's accurate. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 893 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1441 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1557 Views
Hm - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1504 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1524 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1469 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 876 Views
No - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1524 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1474 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1459 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 920 Views
I already knew - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1401 Views
No. - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1433 Views
What a load of bullshit. - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1445 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1589 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1564 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1419 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1525 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 850 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1466 Views
Well yes. - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1411 Views
I would prefer to say that - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1609 Views
Of course you would. - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1524 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1611 Views
Ok. - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1618 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1844 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1671 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1526 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1508 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 911 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 844 Views
Statistically - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1570 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1563 Views
Hardly any - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1691 Views
I think probably not. - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1470 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 836 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 827 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 835 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1405 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 874 Views
Yes, he did. - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1435 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 887 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1370 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1492 Views
You mean like this? - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1580 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1418 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 856 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1471 Views
Yes it does. - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1471 Views
*sigh* - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1344 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1385 Views
no but they do tell a story - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1301 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1470 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 875 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1657 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2205 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1536 Views
Just as a little aside - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1408 Views
Ever helpful. - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1619 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2188 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1587 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2164 Views
I'm having warm feelings. - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1557 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1983 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1793 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1171 Views
How much did you miss it, really? - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1500 Views

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