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In general, I agree nossy Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM

However, you are ignoring so much history that your argument doesn't hold up.


View original postGet over that idea real quick, because if you're gonna blame everyone else for your screwed up decisions, you're in a world of hurt. I'm not gonna condem or defend the "imperialastic" behavior of the past. There's no point. The actions were done, and you deal with it.

Is this what we tell abused children? Yes, we do have a right to expect an individual to take responsibility for any personal actions, but it's extremely myopic to believe that there is no lasting effect of past (and current) wrongs.
View original postHowever, you are 100% wrong in thinking that acts of Terror are a "response to geopolitical issues." I call complete and total bull crap on that statement. Acts of Terror occure because someone wanted them to. Period. Their internal motivation could be geopolitical...or religion based...or just to "watch the world burn." If I came up to you and punched you in the face, would you call that a minority vs white assault? Could I claim that you were holding me back from progressing in society, because your ancestors owned slaves?

It would most likely depend why you punched him in the face, for how long, how much of his family you had already punched in the face, why, etc. You may like the idea of ignoring history, but that isn't how most human brains reflexively think, regardless of whose "fault" it is.
View original postAn individual is responsible for every action they make. That guy in England decided to take the meat cleaver to the soldier. Those terrorists decided to attack the embassy. And those hijackers decided to slam the plane into the building. Blame is 100% on the shoulders of the person doing the action.

It is. That does not, in any way, mean that there wasn't a reason, or that some may not decide to act because of that reason.
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2801 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 852 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 765 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 837 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1311 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1401 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 779 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1416 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1372 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1575 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1387 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 867 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1382 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1587 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1667 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1240 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 805 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 823 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1312 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 864 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1377 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1320 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1322 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1174 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1240 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 849 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1278 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 838 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1230 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1321 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1240 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1285 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1511 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1301 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1384 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 767 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1260 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 807 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 760 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1276 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1194 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1352 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1282 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1296 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1378 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1393 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1372 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1182 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1302 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1623 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1459 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1248 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1243 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1318 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1302 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1320 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1181 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1119 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1212 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1137 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1315 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1230 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1171 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1253 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1136 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1228 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1254 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1178 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 706 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1497 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1363 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1586 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1164 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1298 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1265 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1422 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1404 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 711 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 772 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1359 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1223 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1215 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1251 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 901 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1394 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1239 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 830 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1322 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1175 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1371 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1285 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1127 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1387 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1185 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1177 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1348 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 788 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1236 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1354 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1301 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1314 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1277 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 769 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1318 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1282 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1254 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 819 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1208 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1340 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1229 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1246 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1147 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1234 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1271 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1390 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1371 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1205 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1327 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 747 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1248 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1249 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1210 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1419 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1330 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1391 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1395 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1619 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1467 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1335 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1303 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 810 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 740 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1386 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1356 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1479 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 723 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1187 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1183 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1208 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1269 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 735 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 727 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 718 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1193 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 765 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1252 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 757 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1180 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1285 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1368 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1192 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 757 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1272 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1268 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1146 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 778 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1151 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1111 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1298 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 768 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1437 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 1975 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1327 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1200 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1395 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 1927 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1359 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 1933 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1357 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1770 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1577 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1020 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1283 Views
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