"My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America. "
		Joel Send a noteboard - 24/11/2009 06:57:34 AM
		
	I am not being "scared into compromising my principles". If we declared them POWs and held them indefinitely in a prison camp, would that violate American principles? Once again, I'm gonna ask: Are you really willing to deliberately damage our warfighting capabilities in hopes of making a good impression on the world?
You call them POWs in your subject line: Declaring them POWs and holding them until at least the cessation of hostilities wouldn't bother me. What we've done instead, however, is declare them enemy combatants, and, on realizing that still didn't give us a blank check, repeatedly redefined that term (despite it being well defined by treaty) until it did.
That doesn't bother you even a little? The government telling the people the rules by which it will operate rather than the reverse doesn't seem a LITTLE un-American to you?
Again, put the politics aside for a moment. Forget you're criticizing Leahy for basically saying what so many here have: We don't need to interrogate them to establish guilt, because it's already established and all that's left is sentencing. For the record, I think that's wrong whatever the party of the person saying it, and worrisome from a US Senator. Really look at the situation and how we've handled it though: At no time has Bush OR Obama ever done what you OR I think we should. So I'm mad they're denying civilians civil rights and you're mad they're giving POWs trials instead of military tribunals.
If they want to call them POWs and hold them indefinitely, put some in front of tribunals, fine by me.
If they want to call them enemy combatants and hold them for trial in civilian courts, also fine.
If they want to call them freaking spies and saboteurs because they were carrying a gun out of uniform in enemy territory, then execute them on the spot, still fine with me.
Defining them as civilians and giving them military trials is a non-starter though.
		Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
			No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden?
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM
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			oO uhm, what?
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM
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			If they're tried INSIDE the US, then yes, they are entitled to due process.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 01:44:08 AM
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			Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM
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			on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM
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			New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM
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			If this trial were being held in any other country
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM
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			It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM
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			It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM
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			Spare me the bullshit.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM
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			I will if you will.  - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
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	     - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
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	         - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
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			No, you won't.  You never will.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM
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			You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM
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			You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM
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			Allow me to point out...
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM
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			That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM
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			It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM
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			I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one  - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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	         - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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	     - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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	         - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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			Military struggles involve militaries.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM
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			Once again, bullshit.
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM
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			This is wrong
	    
	         - 20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM
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			We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM
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			Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad...
	    
	         - 22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM
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			I understand your "jihadist narrative"
	    
	         - 22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM
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			No you don't
	    
	         - 22/11/2009 11:16:18 PM
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			Oh, so you know better than Army attorneys about Miranda rights?
	    
	         - 22/11/2009 11:52:00 PM
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			I can explain it to you right now if you want?
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 08:21:48 AM
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			Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 02:56:19 PM
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			Re: Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 04:55:12 AM
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			I'm glad that you will never be in a position where a decision you make can affect my life.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 12:27:35 AM
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			Actually people of my thinking are already making decisions that affect your life.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 08:29:24 AM
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			Please explain to me how military tribunals compromise my principles?
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 02:54:18 AM
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			And your little hyperbolic rant would make more sense if it were grounded in reality.
	    
	         - 22/11/2009 11:47:17 PM
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			Looks like we'll get a Not Guilty plea, and a defense focusing on condeming US foreign policy
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 12:36:47 AM
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			They'll publicly accuse us of tyranny and brutality in front of a jury and without  our censorship.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 08:27:13 AM
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			My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America.
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 02:57:13 AM
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			"My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America. "
		
	         - 24/11/2009 06:57:34 AM
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			We've had Mohammed in custody for over 6 years...
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 07:56:49 AM
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			I've already responded to your absurd statements, but let me reiterate a few here
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 02:59:09 PM
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			And I've responded to yours
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 04:57:58 AM
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			It's not, at least for me, that we feel the civilian courts are inadequate
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 05:28:51 AM
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			Good analysis of the situation.
	    
	         - 23/11/2009 08:17:01 AM
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			It isn't about sending a message. It's about horrible war fighting strategy.
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 02:59:31 AM
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			No.  It's about not using a horribly ineffective strategy just to send a message to terrorists.
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 09:29:06 AM
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			enemy combatants and terrorists  - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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	         - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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	     - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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	         - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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			They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists.
	    
	         - 24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM
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